Oregon Trail Laser-Cast Bullet: 180 gr' in .357

[safetysheriff]

hello,

can anybody give me an indication, preferably from personal experience, regarding the accuracy and reliability they've experienced with the 180 gr' subject bullet in the .357 Mag'?    i am thinking about trying it for hunting.    will it fracture if it hits bone?   will it expand at all?

has anybody tried one of their Laser-Cast bullets in the .44 mag?    i really am interested in the .357 caliber, but would like to hear about the .44 as well.   

thank you,

ss'   

[swampthing]

Do you mean laser cast or "their" new LBT style trushot? If the latter is what you meant and you can tweak 1300fps or so you will have a great combo.
                      I've used the regular ones in my .44mag. I could not push them fast enough, due to leading, to make them quick and humane on game, or to shatter/expand them, regardless.
For hunting they will kill what ever you shoot around here, but unless you spine'em your going to have some tracking on your hands. If you could get them to shoot straight at 1000fps when loaded "Backwards" you will have an awesome 50-70 yard spot and stalk combo. This will probably require trying a few different powder to get it right.
In .357-anything, I would look into the 185g FNGC from www.beartoothbullets.com and also check if www.montanabulletworks.com has them yet. I would load that bullet over a healthy charge of H110 and a mag primer and try to get velocities up over 1300fps. That bullet has a .280" meplat out front, I would guesstimate the laser cast has a .220" or less. Way too small for handgun velocities to make a respectable wound channel. 

[safetysheriff]

Do you mean laser cast or "their" new LBT style trushot? If the latter is what you meant                      

I've used the regular ones in my .44mag. I could not push them fast enough, due to leading, For hunting they will kill what ever you shoot around here, but unless you spine'em your going to have some tracking on your hands. If you could get them to shoot straight at 1000fps when loaded "Backwards" you will have an awesome 50-70 yard spot and stalk combo.

can anybody please answer my original post re: the Laser-Cast?

thank you,

ss'   

[Graybeard]

I can't give you any personal experiences with the specific bullet mentioned but I can talk to you in generalities as it applies to it. All the Laser-Cast bullets are super hard, way more so than is needed or really desireable. Most are bevel based as well. That creates some problems some times.

In general bevel based bullets are cast by commercial casters because the tend to drop from the moulds a bit easier so are quicker and easier to make. However they are notorious for lack of accuracy as compared to flat base or gas check designs and tend to lead more easily as well. Neither characteristic is universal and in some guns they do fine.

Being as hard as they are they will not obturate to fill the grooves if they happen not to fit your barrel properly. They also are far too hard to mushroom at all and no it's very unlikely they will fracture on bone, you're certainly not gonna push them that hard in a .357 Magnum.

[safetysheriff]

GB'

thank you.   that is an answer that makes sense.  i am familiar with a lack of obturation from bullets that are too hard; and have seen a little in print re: problems with some bevel-based bullets.    i can only hope that their performance might be decent in a Ruger of mine.   obviously you have raised a red flag for me, however.   

while many are averse to neck shots i believe that within certain constraints they are valid.   obviously accuracy is a prime consideration here, and the problem with a bevel-based bullet not providing decent accuracy is troublesome.

are these 'overly-hard' bullets of any use in a micro-groove barrel if they are not gas-checked, i wonder?

thank you for the reply,

ss'   

[Graybeard]

Marlin's Micro-groove barrels in spite of a bad rep for shooting cast bullets can generally do fine with them. I'd not think the very hard ones are any more or less prone to shoot well in them.

[safetysheriff]

GB'

i'll give them a try in the Marlin and see what i get.    it would be a great bonus to have the added capability of a carbine along with my Ruger.    i will plan on toting it to the range one of these days.... if the weather gets decent around here!

thanks, again,

ss' 

[swampthing]

If you are not getting the results your after... it will be probably because the "diameter" of the bullet you are using is too small for the throats in your gun. Simply getting a larger "diameter" bullet to fill the throats will do wonders. Yeah plain base need a little more finesse to get them to shoot straight, a whole other topic, but, when the throat is filled with the proper "diameter" slug accuracy is much more easily achieved. Hopefully I emphasized "DIAMETER" enough, not that it matters or anything with hardcast.





"When Ignorance Reigns Life Is Lost"    Zach De La Rocha.

[pathfinder]

I've shot thousands of Oregon Trail's Laser-Cast bullets and found them to be excellent bullets.  VERY uniform in weight and size.

In 44 I've used their 240gr RNFP in my Marlin 1894 microgroove.  At 50 yards I would get 1.5" groups with open sights.  I used 2400 to propell them.  I suspect the velocity was in the 1400 fps range.  No leading

In 45 caliber I've used the 200 & 250 gr RNFP and the 255 gr SWC.  The 200gr function flawlessly in my 1911.  I usually use Bullseye or SR 4756.   They are the most accurate and reliable load I shoot in it.  I shoot the 250 gr and 255 gr bullets in my BH & 1894CB.   Both bullets are very accurate in my Blackhawk.  I've managed 3" groups, open sights at 50 yards with the Blackhawk.  Out of the 1894CB Sub 1.5" groups are the norm.  Prefered powder is SR4756 and 2400 both at or near published max loadings.  I've had good results out of the BH with AA#5 too.  No leading in the BH but I have had some in the 1894.

1894cb 50 yard Target picture:  http://www.grovestreet.com/jsp/onepic.jsp?id=1215523

I shoot a LOT of the 405gr RNFP in my 45-70's.  My GG's pet load is that bullet over SR4759 and produces excellent accuracy;  http://www.grovestreet.com/jsp/onepic.jsp?id=1206746  .  I have also had excellent results with this bullet over IMR 4198.  I have had leading issues when I push the velocity to around 1600 fps.  A friend of mine used this bullet to harvest his Elk a few years back.  It worked VERY well busting through a shoulder, leaving an excellent wound channel and two holes.  The Elk was down and out quickly.  He loaded it over Black Powder, ~ 1300 fps out of his Sharps replica. 

I've had even better luck with their TRU-SHOT 430 gr.  Very accurate bullet and shoots well in my friend's Sharps too.  A bit spendy for everyday shooting but excellent accurate bullet.

I have not had good luck with the .459 bullets in 300 grains.  2" at 50 yards is the best I've managed.

Their 170gr .310 bullet shoot well in my microgrooved 336 30-30 over pistol powders (Red Dot, SR4756, 231)  Very accurate out to 50 yards with low report and rimfire like recoil.  I've had mixed results with it in 30-06.  It did lead over 1500 fps with poor accuracy.  Over the Pistol powders it shows promise  but haven't tested enough (yet) to make any conclusions. 

Overall I'd give their product and A+ especially for the money.  GREAT ammo for getting the reps in, plinking or punching targets.  I would hunt if that was the only ammo I had but there are better hunting bullets available, Beartooth was mentioned earlier and I would echo that recommendation.

[safetysheriff]

p'f'

great post.   many thanks for your experiences.   great pic's of those targets, too.

your post is encouraging.    i want the .357 for penetration and for accuracy.  i don't expect a cast .357 to do what a jacketed one will unless it's a very soft bullet with a gas-check and a hollow-pointed design.

thank you for taking the time to post something so detailed.

best regards,

ss'