setting a shoulder back

[Ebjonnes]

Hi,  could someone please explain how to move a shoulder back? I would like to reform the 300 Savage by pushing the shoulder back 2 tenths of an in. Any advice would be appreciated.

[Reed1911]

Since you are pushing the shoulder back just 0.2 , the least expensive way to go about it will be to take material off the bottom of your existing die and just screw it down further to get the needed amount. The other ways of doing it are to have a custom FL die made or to use a set of dies specifically made for necking down and should forming, called a forming fie.

[iiranger]

#1). SAFETY!!!  O.K. You move the shoulder back on a rimless and you create excessive headspace and if you use the case in ordinary circumstances, you could have it pull apart, release hot/dangerous gases and do yourself harm... BIG TIME!. So my first question is "why?" thank you.
#2). As said, if you are using ordinary shell holder/dies for an ordinary cartridge, you can do this by shortening the die (or the shell holder) but that would impair the use fullness of the die or shell holder in the future unless you are carefull... Some die makers warn about using their dies with other brands of shell holders BECAUSE they were not well standardized... Not an unwarrented warning,l and it sold more shell holders for the die maker... (ha, ha, ha... )
#3). If you are getting extremely froggy and experimenting... About any standard, WELL lubricated method can be employed. Imperial Die Wax helps alot.  Cutting off used dies bought cheap and 2nd hand at a gun show, no problem. .2? As much as you want. If you want to reform the "head" of the case where the rim is, then you need a lot more press strength. RCBS is famous for case forming dies. Well advertised. Most other makers have them too. Making .250 (or .22/250's) from .30/'06 was common [BUT a lot of work...] At one time, RCBS would mail you the form die instructions for an SASE... Obviously, more details of your "scheme" more detailed advice... Luck.

[Reed1911]

So my first question is "why?" thank you.[

Considering it was posted under the Wildcat forum, I think it's pretty obvious that the plan is to build a wildcat.

Good points all the same.

[iiranger]

Since there are, already and obviously, dozens of wildcats built on the .300 Savage case (which was a shortened .30/'06 for the 99 action, and with "new powders" circa 1920 equallled the original '06 performance)... I suspect anything that can be tried already has and referring to that work could save a bundle, time, money, etc... So the obtuse question leaves me wondering if I could, knowing more, direct the person to the exact thing they are planning, already having been done, saving them a "ton." Like the multiple forms of the 6mm / .250... Long neck, shortened neck... etc. but then if I ask too much... sorry.

[Lone Star]

A large part of wildcatting is the fun in designing your own version of a particular case.  Today the reality is that most wildcats are just not 'needed' - we can buy almost anything we need off the shelf.  But where's the fun in that?  Anyone who has to "why" doesn't belong here and should stay out of the wildcat forum!                                                                                               
 j/k

Cutting 0.2" off the base of a FL die may  not give the desired results.  It will push the shoulder back, but when you cut that much off the base you are reducing the inside diameter of the portion of the die that contacts the base of the case.  Depending on the die's taper you could end up swaging a belt onto you case .


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[iiranger]

  Anyone who has to "why" doesn't belong here and should stay out of the wildcat forum!                                                                                               
 j/k

With all DUE respect, [and I don't think ANY is due], when SAFETY (and a "black eye" for any "gunnie")  is involved, I will NEVER apologize for asking WHY??? Nor, having worked a very tiny bit, [MY HONOR], with Mr. Ackley, feel I don't belong here... Have a nice day, if you can...

[Ebjonnes]

Hi,  I  just got back home from the hospital, double lung transplant, talk about wildcatting !!! My  goal is to get a decent siized short neck 30 in a AR15. I am rethinking the .300 savage,as the case head is a little to large. Looks like I might try the .35 Rem brass run into a 7.62 Argentine die shortened to 45mm.

[Reed1911]

For ease of parts, why not just open up the 6.8 SPC to .308? It started life a little longer in .30 cal as the .30 Remington. Although the 6.8 case was re-designed a little to be a bit stronger, just a thought.
Pushing the .35 Rem shoulder back a bit will give you more case capacity, but it will also entail more back thrust due to the larger case head, so you'll need to watch that on the lugs to be sure you do not start stressing them. Also by pushing the shoulder back you'll have a bit of brass work to do with trimming, but each 'catter to his own.
others,  the .30/223 and .308 1.5"

[Lone Star]

With all DUE respect, [and I don't think ANY is due], when SAFETY (and a "black eye" for any "gunnie")  is involved, I will NEVER apologize for asking WHY??? Nor, having worked a very tiny bit, [MY HONOR], with Mr. Ackley, feel I don't belong here... Have a nice day, if you can...

Wow, someone doesn't know how to read internet posts, do they?  If you had bothered  to note, the little "j/k" after my first paragraph (which you even included in your quote) means "Just Kidding". Next time please make the effort to think before you insult another poster. 


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[iiranger]

I knew Mr. Ackley, and that is hardly at all--read his columns in the magazines and corresponded a trifle, much better than I know computers. SORRY.

j/k means "just kidding???" O.K. I will try to remember that. At the same time, I do not "kid" about safety... NEVER. Too easy to get hurt... I get trifle touchy, "trifle" ... H__ A lot more than that over safety... thank you... r