New Seecamp

[daddywpb]

My wife and I ride motorcycles and I have been looking for something to carry in the pocket of the vest that I wear most of the time while we ride. Everything I've tried has been too big and heavy, even the ultralight S&W J frames. Was wandering around a gun show last weekend, wearing my vest, and saw a brand new Seecamp .32 auto. I asked to see it, and dropped it in my vest pocket, where it completely disappeared! I know a .32 auto is not the best choice for self defense, but it's a lot better than not carrying anything at all. It will be easily accessible and ready if I need it. I hear there are ammo considerations with Seecamps, but I have some Hydra-Shok hollow points and some Winchester white box TC solids to try. I can't wait to shoot it!

[rockbilly]

For a nice small carry gun you need to look at the Kel-Tec P-9, it is a 9mm about the same size as the Seecamp.  Great little gun, but kinda hard to find right now.

[RollTide]

The Seecamp is a fine gun and is much smaller than the PF9.  I own a NAA 32 which is only slightly larger than the Seecamp, almost identical size wise.  As far as the 32 caliber goes, when you consider that you are going to need multiple shots with anything that fits in a vest pocket, the 32 may be the perfect caliber.  The 38+p has WICKED recoil in a light J frame size gun making FAST ACCURATE multiple shots VERY diffcult.  The 380 is not quite as bad in the recoil department as the 38, but it is still far worse than the 32.  Link that to the fact that in actual gunfights, the 32, the 380, and the 38 out of a 2" barrel are all so close in incapacitation comparing the averages over 100's of gunfights, that it is basically a dead heat as far as effectiveness of the caliber goes.  Whatever inadequacies the 32 has as a caliber for protection, the 380 and the 38 in a 2" barrel have the EXACT same inadequacy where it counts.  So the 32 being about equal to the 38 in a 2" barrel or a 380 for effectiveness, and superior as far as speed of repeat shots on target, and MUCH superior to a revolver for ease of reload and ease to carry extra rounds (I can carry 4 - 10rd mags of 32 in my back pocket EASILY, even in tight jeans) and the 32 may actually be the best of the guns mentioned.  Try carrying 40 extra rounds of 380 or 38 in a back pocket.  I think you made a fine purchase myself, and if Seecamp will give you a lifetime warranty even on a second hand purchase the way that NAA does, then it will be almost as good a deal as a NAA Guardian.      

Just my 2 cents

Roll Tide

PS As far as ammo goes, the Seecamp was designed for the Win. Silver Tip, which is a very effective round for the caliber.  The best perfomer in the ammo department that I have found is the Corbon, if your gun will handle them.  The Corbon ammo is HOT for the caliber.

Look here for a comprehensive head to head comparison of the 32 ammo that is available.
http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/32acp/gel32acp.htm

Look here for a head to head size comparison of pocket guns.  You DEFINITELY made the right choice on size.
http://www.mouseguns.com/PocketAutoComparison.jpg

[daddywpb]

I looked at the Keltec and Kahr - both are quite a bit bigger and did not fit in the pocket in question.

Rolltide - Thanks for the info and the links. My Seecamp was new, and it does have a lifetime warranty. I have not been able to find any Silvertips yet, but I've used them before in other calibers. Very good ammo. They are the recommended load from Seecamp (old ones being better than new manufacture). I have some old Silvertips, but they aren't .32. The factory also recommends Speer Gold Dots.

[SHOOTALL]

Mouse gun , if you need a gun , have a big enough one , my wife shoots 158 gr. lead hollow points , and when you are shooting multiple shots in a crisis bet ya wouldn't notice the kick ! besides if you are close enough to hit with a mouse gun ( a spot where it will do some good ) you could point shoot the 38 at center of mass and do some good where the 32 would need to hit in a smaller area to do some good , like a head shot or such same as a 25 ! would rather have a knife ! at least it won't need a reload ! try a mod. 38 S&W air weight body guard ! i don't leave home with out it !

[daddywpb]

Like I said, a S&W Airweight is not only too heavy, but too bulky for my needs. Depending on ammo type, I've seen some pretty impressive ballistics for the .32 auto, now that I have a need to know. Penetration is penetration - a hole in a lung is a hole in a lung - the difference in the diameter between .32 and .38 is insignificant if either has passed thru your lungs. I'm a believer in bigger bullets make bigger holes. My normal carry gun under an untucked dress shirt is a Glock .45, but you have to be able to address each situation as needed. If I hang a Glock on my belt while on a bike, EVERYONE will see it. Not good.

[RollTide]

Shootall,
If you think the 32 = 25, you are only foolng yourself.  If you think the 38 in a 2" barrel will not need just as many shots to stop a threat as the 32, you are fooling yourself.  If you think that you can carry ammo and reload a 38 as fast as a 32, you are fooling yourself. 

In 151 actual shootings the 32 Silvertip stopped the attack with one shot 66% of the time.
In 305 actual shootings the 38+P LHP 158gr (snubnose) stopped the attack with one shot 67% of the time.

Now it has been argued, and rightfully so, that those figures do not account for all the times people were shot more than once.  So while these figures DO NOT indicate that either bullet will work 66% of the time, they CERTAINLY indicate that neither bullet is going to work ANY BETTER than 67% of the time (including your 38 round). It also CERTAINLY indicates that in a head to head comparison by the same criteria from 456 ACTUAL SHOOTINGS, the 32 silvertip and the 38+p 158gr LHP FROM A 2" BARREL are dead even in effectiveness (38 effectiveness goes way up from a 4" barrel.)

I am sure your wife can shoot the 38, but I am also sure that you must be just as accurate with a 38 as you are with a 32 (151 shootings testify that the 32 is NOT a head shot only proposition) and that the 32 will do it faster.  I usually carry a 40S&W or a 45acp in a compact package.  These have more recoil than the 38 snub and considerably more than the 32, but the difference is that when one of those hits it will be considerably more effective than the 32 while the 38 snub will only be "as good" as the 32.  If I go to something with more recoil I am going to get more effectiveness.  If it is not more effective, why put up with the recoil?  THAT is why I don't carry a 38 and I do carry a 32 instead.

I too have times when I simply cannot carry my larger gun or when I feel I need a backup to my larger gun.  In those times, the 32 is easily as good if not a better choice than the 38.  Carry what you like, but don't fool yourself about the effectiveness of what you carry.  That can get you hurt. 

My wife can dump 7 rounds of 32 on target (or targets) AND RELOAD faster than your wife can empty her 5 rounds of 38 and be out of options.

Be safe out there,

Roll Tide

[SHOOTALL]

First if a 13 oz body guard is to heavy what can i say ! since i do not know the garment you wear or your size i have no intention of starting an argument , but for me i altered my clothing to allow myself to carry a better weapon !
as far as a 32 being equal to a 38 get real , i don't kid myself a plus p 38 is more powerful than a 32 period ! I have some silvertips for the 38 also . why do most of the cops i know carry a 38 for back up ?
as to the 25 and 32 i referred to tactics either are better employed as a close range weapon placed near contact with the target near a vital opening ,ie nose , mouth ,eye ,or the temple  etc. , a snub nose 38 can be employed likewise as well as in a conventional way , be honest in a fire fight do you think the mouse guns have the sights , trigger , grip , and ablity to pull the trigger a second time if the round fails to fire ?
now , you ask for opinions because you were not sure ! you said the S&W were to heavy i concede that to you , so if you don't like my advice i can live with that , i hope anyone who chooses the 32 never has to find out if they can live with it !
good luck !

[daddywpb]

Shootall,
I respect your opinion. Sounds like your mind is made up and I hate to confuse the issue for you with facts, but.....the Seecamp is 11.5 ounces empty, the trigger is very smooth, it is almost half the size of a J frame Smith and there are no sights. Taking the time to look for sights in a defensive situation, especially in low light, will get you killed. Fact - most gunfights happen at distances less than seven yards, and a high percentage happen at considerably less than that. It is a point and shoot situation, and you should practice accordingly. As for the knife, I think we all know what happens when you take a knife to a gunfight. I know one person who could pull it off, but most could not. Carry whatever you're comfortable with and shoot it often. Forget about sights and practice for a real world situation. If you can carry a heavy caliber - do it. The bigger the better if you can conceal it and shoot it well. Around here, shorts and t-shirts are the norm. A .22, .25, .32 or small .380 in your pocket sure beats a .38 or .45 left at home in the safe. Good luck to you also.

[SHOOTALL]

I also respect yours and have little trouble with a 12-13 oz revolver with sights for those times they may be needed , you see in the outdoors the bad guy may be a snake , bad dog etc and with a wider selection of ammo i feel more secure with the revolver that i can aim . as for practice , at 7 yds a draw from holster and a shoot into an index card 1 1/2 seconds max or 2 shots in a 8 1/2 x11 paper at 15 yds  2 seconds .In the event you describe one better have gun in hand which is also practiced .
I agree that most conflict is at touching distance and a weapon that can be fired in a pocket more than once is nice to have ! To be honest i carried several 32's and 3 380's and for the same reason you want  . But one day i was in a situation that made me wish i had bigger and i haven't carried a mouse gun since , I consider anyone on this site to be somewhat like minded a friend if you will , and offer my experiences so others won't have to replow old ground . I wish you the best of luck with what ever you choose ! just go about choosing it like any insurance policy , make sure you have the coverage you need for the event you may face .
You stated my mind was made up , i have to agree , you see i live near the city that was the murder capital of the south for many years and saw first hand how effective a mouse gun was on several occasions ! and do fool yourself about the knife !