Rifle question for Greybeard and others

[Buckfever]

Greybeard, what older rifles and calibers did you use and like?  I see alot of used guns at shows and wonder what there history was like.  For example did you like Remington 722's?  How about models in a 7x57 and so on.  I know it would help me and others find an older well made gem we have little to no history on.  The interest in non-magnum cartridges makes me interested in calibers like a .257 Roberts or 25-06.  So what tack drivers with smooth actions are out there in the form of older makes and models?   Also how put off should a person be about blueing wear?  Thanks  for the help.  Buckfever

[Slamfire]

I had a 722 in .244 when I was in high school, as I remember it shot as good as any 700 I've had since. However, I'm a real south paw and when I got out of the Navy traded it on a left handed Savage .243. I think it had a 24" barrel and it was a real plain jane for looks. One of those in .257 would be a fine rifle for anything under 400 lbs, (especially if hand loaded to .25-06 pressure levels) and adequate for larger stuff if you're not excitable and can wait for a good shot. The real beauty of the older rifles, other than a Winchester 70, would be the Remington 725 which was the ultimate conversion of the Enfield Model 1917.  But they didn't make very many of them. 
Blueing wear often speaks more about the way a rifle was transported than how it was used. 

[ssghelmick]

I have a couple of Mauser's That I have since redone so i don't know if you would count them. I also Have a Ruger M77 (not a MK II) chambered in 7x57 that I bought about 5 years ago off the used rack and I have to say it has the smoothest action of all my rifles past or present. It's far smoother than either of my MK II's but than again it's a push feed so it should be. As I said I bought it used so I don't know what year it was made and have not done the research to find out but it's no longer produced and is probably my favorite of all the rifles I own.

I also had a pre 64 Winchester chambered in .264 WM which was absolutely superb but unfortunately I was offered 4 times what I paid for it and took the deal. I now wish I had kept it but that's often the way it goes when your young and dumb. I'm older now but it's debatable if weather I'm any smarter or not.

[Graybeard]

My very first was a halfway sporterized mauser 7x57. I'm not sure of the model but I seem to recall maybe a '91 or '93 or some such. Not one of the better thought of mausers I don't think. It wasn't much but was what my parents got me for Christmas the year my request was for a Winchester Model 70 featherweight in .30-06. I never killed anything while I owned it but did develop a fondest I still have for the 7MM bore.

Other than lever guns which for me have almost exclusively been Marlins the vast majority of my centerfire rifles have been Remingtons. Not getting that Model 70 as a boy must have done something to my mind as I've pretty much never bought Winchester rifles ever since. I flirted with the Model 742 and 760 for awhile mostly in 30-06 but one was a .270 and then moved to bolt guns primarily the Model 700 and Model 7s. I have never owned any of the pre-700 Remingtons.

As to chamberings I've played around with several but always seem to return to the .30-06, .270 Win. and the 7-08. Hard to say just which has taken more game for me really as I've used all three a lot. I flirted with the .243 in a Browning LW but the only deer shot with it got away with zero blood trail only to be found a couple weeks later by others following buzzards. Can't I guess be 100% sure it was same deer as I didn't see it but from description I think it was. I felt the shot was good but it sure didn't seem to be from the results. I've never fired a less than .277" bullet on big game since and likely never will the rest of my life.

I've owned a few .25-06s but never shot big game with them. Had a .257 Roberts and a .260 Remington but never used on game.

For a deer rifle to me at least the 7-08 is about as ideal as they come, I'd take it over all others I guess really but did let my last one go some while back in a weak moment so I now use a .270 Winchester which is about my close second favorite. For an all around gun I'd pick the .30-06 but for deer only I can't see it any better than the other two.

I've owned rifles by other makers but never seemed to keep them very long as I quickly tired of them. I'm a confirmed Remington bolt gun shooter and just plain don't consider others when I'm ready to buy. Others always seem to disappoint me, Remington never has.

[Buckfever]

Greybeard, where the early Rem. 700's better for materials and workmanship?  I wonder if buying a used 700 in a .270 with worn blueing and dented stock is a worth while fix up project?   Thanks  Buckfever

[deltecs]

If you are really interested in discontinued rifles and their relative merits, try "Bolt Action Rifles by Frank de Haas".  He's written a remarkable textbook regarding firearms actions reading more like fiction than fact.  It is thorough about almost every bolt action made prior to 1980.  I have an older edition and it doesn't cover some of more modern actions in great detail.  Unless the weapon is obviously mistreated, I personally do not care too much about bluing wear.  That is normal for a rifle carried to field.  Look at the lands, see if they are sharp, check the bore for pits, wiggle the action for abnormal play in the bolt and other moving parts, check the wood stock for warping or swelling due to moisture, write a check and take your chances.  The chance is the same a buying a new one.  If you've done your part in closely review of the weapon, chances are it will do its in the field.
Greg
Detente: An armed citizenry versus a liberal society

[Graybeard]

Greybeard, where the early Rem. 700's better for materials and workmanship?  I wonder if buying a used 700 in a .270 with worn blueing and dented stock is a worth while fix up project?   Thanks  Buckfever

Sorry but I'm just now seeing your question for the first time. Dunno how it slipped by me when you posted it. I don't know that I'd personally say the older ones had better materials or workmanship altho many do seem to say that. I get better accuracy from more recent ones than some of the oldest ones I've owned. I'd sure not be afraid of an older one if the barrel is in good condition and not shot out. Bluing wear and finish problems are really cosmetic and have no effect on the use the gun will be put to. I go by whether its somthing I want and if it's priced right rather than if it's old or new.

[slabsides]

"Another" GreyBeard here...your question is one I hear a lot from younger shooters...sometimes phrased as 'Why do you stick to that OLD rifle, when newer models and chamberings have so much to offer?"
My centerfires are an early '60's Rem 700, and Winchester and Ruger bolt guns from the early '80's. I have three .22's that were new when I still had NO grey in my hair, and I own and cherish a couple of Mausers that are about as old or older than I am.
I am convinced that recent guns are just as good if not better shooters than my old pieces. But I doubt they'll hold up as long as my well-broken in veterans. There's something about an old gun, and what it is, is not that it's worn, but that it's worn IN. Smoothed up with thousands of cycles of the action. I've never shot a barrel out, although I know someone who has...my old guns just keep getting better...or maybe I'm just a better shooter...but I don't think I'd swap one of my old friends for something shiny and new that might not be as good, even if you could show me it was better. Sentiment enters into it, too.

[lilabner]

 I've owned some older rifles that were high quality. Old enough to remember Herter's? They sold "the worlds greatest" outdoor stuff. I bought a used Herter's U9 (BSA action) in .257 Roberts that was a tack driver. If you frequent gun shows you might run across one. Another "name" rifle is the J.C. Higgins once sold by Sears Roebuck. They came in Husquvarna and Mauser actions with Hi Standard barrels and were great shooters. I believe they were called the model 50 and model 51. I had the Husquvarna in 30-06 and it was exceptional in build and accuracy. You mention the 722 and it was a fine rifle as was the long action 721. Both are rather plain in appearance so people don't chase after them like they do the beautiful pre 64 Win. model 70. I had a 721 in .270 and it was an excellent shooter. Another plain jane rifle worth owning is the old Remington 788 - perhaps the most accurate of the Remington bolt guns. People know that so they aren't exactly bargain basement specials. As for cartridges, the .257 Roberts is a great one for deer, antelope and varmints. Ruger still builds them in the M77. The 7x57 Mauser is an excellent cartridge as is the 6.5x55 Mauser. I don't know of any 7x57 production rifles being built but the 6.5 is still in production. These cartridges came out in the 1890s!

[Buckfever]

Thanks guys for the information.  The early guns are starting to catch my eye.  Thanks  Buckfever

[deltecs]

... As for cartridges, the .257 Roberts is a great one for deer, antelope and varmints. Ruger still builds them in the M77. The 7x57 Mauser is an excellent cartridge as is the 6.5x55 Mauser. I don't know of any 7x57 production rifles being built but the 6.5 is still in production. These cartridges came out in the 1890s!

I think Ruger still makes some M77's in 7x57 and I know he does with the No 1.  he used to make a few in 7x57.

[OLDHandgunner]

Old enough to remember Herter's? They sold "the worlds greatest" outdoor stuff. I bought a used Herter's U9 (BSA action) in .257 Roberts that was a tack driver.

I still have a couple of their old catalogs.

Yes. My brother-in law owned one in a .270. This gun was a tack driver with almost any weight bullet.

A couple of older guns that I own that stand out as exceptional quality & accuracy are a Rem. 700 BDL Varmint in 22-250 purchased in 1969 and the second one is a Ruger M-77 in 25-06 purchased 1970. Both have very nice actions & shoot about any handload that you feed through them into ragged holes.
There are still alot of these nice older guns available at gun shows & gun shops. This is my off season hunting. Hunting for the can't live without it gun at shows & shops. When we go on vacation the wife goes shopping and I head for any gun shop that is in the area.

[jvs]

Thanks guys for the information.  The early guns are starting to catch my eye.  Thanks  Buckfever

There is absolutley nothing wrong with buying a used gun.  Used rifles can cost 1/2 to 2/3's the price of a new one and can sometimes come with rings, a scope and a sling.  What more could you ask for.

If you buy at the right time and place, you can score on some real nice pieces in decent shape.  Visiting the local Mom-n-Pop gun shops can pay off in the fact that their used guns usually come from regular customers.  The local gun shop owner can sometimes tell you who owned it before and how hard it was used.   While no one can guarantee a used gun any more than a new gun,  buying off the used racks is nothing to be afraid of.  You are taking less of a chance buying used in most cases, IMO.     

[ssghelmick]

... As for cartridges, the .257 Roberts is a great one for deer, antelope and varmints. Ruger still builds them in the M77. The 7x57 Mauser is an excellent cartridge as is the 6.5x55 Mauser. I don't know of any 7x57 production rifles being built but the 6.5 is still in production. These cartridges came out in the 1890s!

I think Ruger still makes some M77's in 7x57 and I know he does with the No 1.  he used to make a few in 7x57.

Not according to their website. A search for 7x57 came up with nothing.

[deltecs]

... As for cartridges, the .257 Roberts is a great one for deer, antelope and varmints. Ruger still builds them in the M77. The 7x57 Mauser is an excellent cartridge as is the 6.5x55 Mauser. I don't know of any 7x57 production rifles being built but the 6.5 is still in production. These cartridges came out in the 1890s!

I think Ruger still makes some M77's in 7x57 and I know he does with the No 1.  he used to make a few in 7x57.

Not according to their website. A search for 7x57 came up with nothing.

I just looked at Rugers site.  He still makes the 7X57 Mauser in the No 1 single shot in 2 different stock configurations.  No 1A with sights and 22: barrel and a No 1 RSI with the full length stock and 20" barrel.  I have a 30-06 No 1 RSI that is a dream to hunt with.  Extremely accurate, wonderfully balanced and easy to carry.  Ruger also chambered the Mark 1 and 2 model 77 in 7X57 and some are on the market.  It appears that he has discontinued this fine round in his bolt rifles.  Too bad, to my way of thinking but Ruger does have enough other calibers to effectively replace it.   The 7mm-08 is nearly identical as to ballistics.  It is chambered in its bolt rifles.