.38 Special/180 gr. load with Unique

[darkroomdan]

Reading a previous post I see there are many Unique users on the forum. I too have been using Unique as my go to powder since I started reloading in the early '70s. I recently bought a plain base round nose flat point mould from NEI that is listed as 190 grains - as cast with my wheelweight mix it runs about 182 or 183 grains. I'd like to use Unique and was hoping for about 850 fps from my four and six inch revolvers. Haven't found listings for that bullet weight except some for jacketed or gas-checked - anyone have any favorite loads to share - would be OK to be +P but doesn't have to be...
Thanks,
DRD

[Graybeard]

To get that much bullet moving that fast from a short barrel .38 Special you're going to have to run to near .357 Magnum pressures well over even Plus P Plus much less plus p.

[Evil Dog]

Didn't show anything in Unique or running that fast, but did show a 180gr lead truncated cone bullet.  Might help, might not.

http://www.reloadammo.com/38loads.htm

[darkroomdan]

Well, so much for that, thanks Graybeard - what kind of velocities are possible with that bullet weight and keep the pressure at standard levels?
DRD

[stimpylu32]

DRD

I use 3.8 grains of Unique under a 200gr. cast and get just at 800 FPS , as a note i have to shoot these in a 357 Mag revolver because they are to long to fit a 38 spl. chamber . so you may want to check your COL with the 180s .

stimpy

[BCB]

darkroomdan,

I shoot the 358429 (approximately 175 grains) in a Smith Victory series handgun—an older one for sure.  I can get around 800 fps (a bit less) with no signs of pressure—I haven’t pushed it more because of the age of the handgun.  850 fps might be pushing the pressure curve a bit...
Regardless, I think you might do better with a slower burning powder.  I use Blue Dot, AL-8, 2400, and sometimes 571, the fastest of what I have listed.  I get the best accuracy with the ol’ AL-8, but those big yellow-green flakes don’t meter worth a darn!!!  Still, I think I would pursue slower powders than Unique.  Good-luck…BCB

[darkroomdan]

I was trying for an all-around heavy/slow to use - mostly in .357 revolvers (4 and 6 inch) but also occasionally a 2 inch .38 snub. I thought the faster powder might do better in the shorter barrel - might also put it in my Puma 92 - I did try a mild load of 2400 - about 7 grains that worked OK,  but seemed very light - don't have a chrony so not sure of the fps - but it did work well with the COL in .38 cases - even fed great in the Puma.

What I have found and tried to interpret a load from are these:

Allaint - 200 gr. lead - 3.7 grains Unique for 800 fps

Lyman- 170 gr. lead - 5 grains Unique for 860 fps

I was estimating a starting load of 4 grains with the 180 and working up to about 4.5 as max - does that sound reasonable to anyone?

By the way, I really like this bullet - I think if I can find the right load it will be my main one!

Thanks for all the replies,
DRD

[Mikey]

darkroomman:  A Winchester factory load of 3.8 gns of WW231 under a 200 gn cast slug is my choice for the 38 snubnose revolver.  It lists at 770'/sec but only clocks out at about 700'/sec from the snubbie, but it carries on through very nicely.  I use the same slug over 12.4 gn of WW296 in my 357s.  These loads are very accurate in both the 38 and the 357.

My older Lyman manual shows Unique loads of 3.0 - 4.1 gns for 572-772'/sec for the same slug.  2400 powder pushes it faster if you want to use them in a 357 and the charges for 2400 are 8.0 - 9.3 gns for 734 to 893'/sec.  These loads were shot in a 6" 38, so they would be slower from your 38 snubbie.  I have also found that the heavier 2400 charges seem a bit much for the j-frame S&Ws and don't give you much more than a lot of bark and recoil. 

For your information:  Col. Charles Askins preferred the 38 Spl with a 200 gn slug when he wasn't using a 45 auto with ball ammo.  He used a similar caliber, the 38 S&W (200 gn rn slug at 600'/sec from a 4" bbl), during some of his wartime efforts and recounted the story of shooting a German soldier at 25m as the soldier ran from him and jumped over a hedgerow.  He recounted that he shot the soldier squarely in the back and after the fight went to check on him - he found the slug had hit the soldier squarely in the back as he had aimed and that the slug had penetrated the soldier's backpack and had continued to penetrate out the man's chest, killing him where he fell. 

The NYCPD tested the Winchester 200 gn rn cast loading and found that while it penetrated automobile bodies well enough (heavier metal then), they were not accurate.  Well, the 200 gn cast swc slugs I shoot all group very nicely - definately capable of head shots at 25m from my 38 snubbies and the same slug from my 357s is veeerrry accurate and my choice for field use. 

If you are looking for 200 gn slugs I would first check out our sponsors to see if any sell them and if not, they can be purchased from either Colorado Cast Bullets or Mt. Baldy Bullets.  HTH.  Mikey.