Frangible Defense Ammo

[chucky52]

Wondering what the state of the art is for the various frangible ammos. Has there been a decent evaluation of this stuff.? I haven't purchased any since I don't have a feel for what I'm getting into.

[chucky52]

Imagine that, a defense forum, a defense oriented group, 22 views and 0 responses. No wonder I feel like I shouldn't buy what I don't under stand. I read articles frequently on non-frangible ammo and it seems to be well understood. I'll watch a few more days and give up.

[Noreaster]

I took a class at the Sig academy. We tested frangible ammo. I shot one through a door, and four pallets. Soft material goes right through with no expansion (the solid tip rounds we used.) We shot it at windshield glass and the round turned to dust and didn't even crack the glass. Shot a rock and the round turned to dust.

One of the instructors has taken a deer with a 357 sig frangible round. Don't know what your looking for, but as far as home defense it will still go through sheet rock and 2x4 wall studs, so you would still have to worry about over penetration if you missed the threat. Plus the stuff we used didn't expand so it takes allot of umph out of your caliber.

[drdougrx]

Hmmm....frangibles...I own glaser safety slugs in 5 or 6 calibers and have never even fired one....

I also don't know of anyone who has except Mass Ayoob who shot a doe with a .357 out of his M66 named fluffy.  I think he may have also shot a boar with one in 44mag.  As expected he said they were like ICBMs based on the damage. 

After a while, I changed them out for hydra-shocks as those glaser rounds had more miles on them than a 57 chevy.  I never felt the need to replace them with fresh ammo as they were too expensive to test fire.  Now...I'm just not interested in the exotic stuff and just concentrate on hitt'n where I'm point'n.

[chucky52]

Thanks for the comments, I surprised at the lack of legitimate study info on the topic. I think I'll stick to the known.

[coyotejoe]

I tried out some of the Aguila IQ rounds in .45 ACP. Never shot a living critter but in wet newspaper it does break into four segments just as designed to do. One cop I worked with gave me a ration of crap saying "why do you want that stuff that penetrates body armor?" Well I don't know if it does penetrate armor, I only tried it in wet newspaper and there it did just as expected, four segments penetrating deeply on divergent paths. I would feel confident in using it for defense but I no longer own a .45 ACP.

[SHOOTALL]

I looked at the cost and realized that praticing with it would not happen and one should pratice with what they carry .Here a box of 125 gr 357 mag is over $50.00 , 50 safety slugs would be near or over $100.00 . Also one should change ammo often that also would be a big cost . Then also does it really give that much more safety over normal ammo ? And last it seems like a application driven ammo . Do we need single use ammo ? or do we carry over a broad range of conditions ?

[coyotejoe]

I guess if the single use of a handgun is for defensive shooting then a single use ammo is appropriate. I don't agree that one must practice with the same ammo they carry for serious work. If it is reliable, reasonably accurate and shoots reasonably close to the point of aim there is no reason one can't practice with cheap ammo and save the high dollar stuff of serious use. I also don't see any need to "change out"  or rotate ammo. Modern ammo will be as reliable in 50 years as the day it rolled off the production line.

[Dee]

I guess if the single use of a handgun is for defensive shooting then a single use ammo is appropriate. I don't agree that one must practice with the same ammo they carry for serious work. If it is reliable, reasonably accurate and shoots reasonably close to the point of aim there is no reason one can't practice with cheap ammo and save the high dollar stuff of serious use. I also don't see any need to "change out"  or rotate ammo. Modern ammo will be as reliable in 50 years as the day it rolled off the production line.

I would agree will all said here with the exception of 50 year old ammo.

As joe said, practice with cheap LIGHT LOADED ammo, and when finished practicing put the good stuff back in. How does that work? Works real good if you shoot a lot, and a bad guy tries to take you out. TWICE! I practiced what I had trained for, and didn't have to think about it.
Frangible ammo. All I can think of is.  . 45acp ball will not reliably penetrate a car windshield. 9mm will. 357 mag will out perform both those rounds. There has been much experimenting and AMMO SELLING to L.E. over the years, and all kinda majic bullets, and I was part of that EXPERIMENTING for 20 years. The bullet boys were always sellin dept's the latest bad guy downer. In the end, seldom did it come to anything. Hollow Points work thru hydraulics, i.e. body fluids. If they stop up going thru clothing, and don't work, well now your shootin ball. Oh, but Dee! The new computer designed bullets are much better. Yea Right! Put a hole in the guy and see if he falls. If he doesn't, put another one in him. That's what works.
I was in several situations where guns were involved. Two of which got real interestin real quick, and I was the guest of honor at both. The first occasion I was usin a 357 mag, and the second occasion a 45acp. After the second occasion, I went back to the 357 mag. THE NEXT DAY! And no, the 357 Sig AIN'T THE SAME.
Well. I'm sure I didn't help, but I do agree with joe on his points. All except that 50 year deal.

[SHOOTALL]

Guys I do pratice with less expensive but complete most sessions with a round of carry stuff. As to what I mean about carry ammo - well I work outside alot and its hot and humid here also being a plumber one gets wet from time to time. I switch carry ammo every 4 weeks or so unless it gets soaked . I use this ammo as pratice ammo like mentioned earlier . I carry 5 in gun and 6 on a strip . Also keep a strip in truck which reaches in the 100's on a summer day. That to goes to pratice . I go even farther and use Winchester ammo mostly as it is water proofed . Over kill maybe but it lets me sleep better at night . BTW in over 10 or so years of carry only a couple rounds failed to fire , they were not Winchester though.
 Now to be honest you don't need ammo to pratice trigger control , sight picture , sight alingment or live fire . I agree 100% but to me at least its nice to know exactly what my carry ammo and gun are going to do at that monent of truth. Truth is I may not feel the recoil or get the sight picture correct in a fight but knowinf what the gun will do may just give me enough confidence in it to not even consider it when i should be fighting and not thing equipment . Remember winning - loosing -living or dieing is alot in the head in a fight .
That said most of the frag. ammo I have seen is light for cal. and hyper vel. which should shoot low , not really a bad thing in a fight as most look over the sights and shoot high.