Another cal "x" vs cal "y" thread (and a great ballistic calculator)

[ctrout]

Hello all.  I admit that I am mainly a lurker here and I generally only visit when I need something (opinions are a very important part of my "research" into gun purchases).  Let me set out the intended use for this new rifle I am considering.  I live in Idaho and hunt mule deer and elk at the same time (cow tag for unit 39 when I draw).  I just returned from Afghanistan and while I was there, I was dreaming about what new firearms I would buy with all the money I was making.  (Custom built Caspian 10mm is a definate.)  Why do I want a new firearm you may ask.  Well, I actually need one.  Not right away mind you, but when I get it in my head to acquire a new firearm, the "research" phase usually lasts one to two years before I actually commit.  In two years, my son will be 12 and will inherit my .270 A-bolt Medallion so now is the time to start shopping. 

In my "research", I came across the 325WSM which appears to be nearly a perfect round as far as my tastes and hunting needs are concerned.  I know that it is really not .325" and is little more than a glorified although only slightly larger .30 but the ballistics look great "on paper."  What sold me was the statements like "more downrange energy than a .338 with less recoil than a .300 Win mag."

I have also heard the praises of the 7mm magnum sung here and across the internet and so I dug a bit further into the "research."  I found this great ballistic calculator http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/bcalculator.cgi?sn=VBGXGMoxkK which allowed me to do some comparing.  It appears that the 7mm has all the punch that I would ever use.  Here are the ballistics that I calculated from Nosler data using the 160gr Partition.


Calculated Table (7MM Magnum)
Range    Drop    Velocity    Energy    
 (yds)    (in)     (ft/s)        (ft•lbs)    
0    -1.5    3046.0       3295.7    
100    1.4    2853.5       2892.3    
200    -0.0    2669.5       2531.3    
300    -6.3    2493.2       2208.0    
400    -18.1    2323.8       1918.1    
500    -36.5    2161.0       1658.8    


The table for the 325 is based on Nosler 200gr Partition data.

Calculated Table (325 WSM)
Range    Drop    Velocity    Energy    
 (yds)    (in)     (ft/s)       (ft•lbs)    
0    -1.5    2925.0       3798.8    
100    1.7    2673.1       3172.6    
200    -0.0    2435.2       2633.2    
300    -7.6    2210.0       2168.6    
400    -22.3    1996.7       1770.3    
500    -45.8    1796.1       1432.4    
   


If it is true that the 325 WSM has less recoil than the 300 WIN MAG, that would put its recoil on par with the 7MM magnum would it not?  If that's the case, it looks like the 325 would be the best choice.  Are any of my assumptions grossly off the mark or is there something else that I am missing?  Some of my concerns are the differences in meat damage, recoil, and availability of components.  I know that 7mm availability will never be a concern but I wonder if the 325 will ever catch on or will brass eventually be impossible to find?

[jasonprox700]

I may be mistaken here and I am definately not an expert, but if you take the 300 and the 325, stick them in equal rifles (weight, barrel length, and model), and I can't see the the 325 having a significantly less kick than the 300.

As for the 7mm, I like the .280 better.  You can get it in a lighter package, and not as much money to shoot either.  My dad has a 7mm and he is looking to get rid of it and getting a .280.  The performance of the .280 is not far off the 7mm.  Just my opinion though.

[ctrout]

I appreciate your opinion and I had not considered the 280.  It does look like it is within about 100fps of the 7MM.  My only reservation is that I know my nature and I would probably have a tendency to try to reach the 7MM magnum performance with my reloads.  I think that it would be safer for me to start with the magnum that way I don't see that next higher number and think I might break the laws of physics and reach that number safely.  I don't think that the temptation would be as great if I had the 7MM mag to begin with.  I really like the numbers that the 7mm has on paper and I'm pretty sure that I would be content with it.  As for cost, the difference in powder to achieve max velocity with each round is three grains (with different powders).  Bullets would cost exactly the same and there is a difference of roughly $50 for 500 rounds of brass.  Considering how long that much brass would last me, I don't think the cost difference is significant enough to be a significant factor in my decision.  The most likely rifle that I will purchase is the Browning A-Bolt.  The weight difference is 6 ounces.  The 280 comes with a 22" barrel and the 7mm has a 26" barrel.  4" more barrel length increases weight a few ounces.  A trade-off that I'm willing to accept. 

[Slamfire]

I don't much care for the belted mags, the brass isn't any stronger, and when full length resizing you may experience problems with the brass piling up on the belt. It is due to the usually generous chamber dimensions. While they may be fine for break open actions, they just aren't needed in bolt actions.

[ctrout]

So then are you putting in another vote for the 280 or are you giving the 325 the nod?

[Coyote Hunter]

Ctrout –

Don’t believe all the hype you hear about the .325win having more downrange energy than a .338 Win Mag. Using with Hornady data with similar bullets and weights, the .338 Win Mag shoots a little flatter and delivers more down range energy.  Zeroing both for Maximum Point Blank Range for a 6” target:

.338 Win Mag @ 400 yards
225g Accubond = -16.6”, 2466fpe

.325 WSM @ 400 yards
220g Game King = -18.2”, 2252fpe

I don’t recall the bullets I used for comparison, but with 180g bullets the difference is even more pronounced -14.3” vs. -18.0” and 1907fpe vs. 1607fpe.

As to the 7mm Mag, it’s a great cartridge.  I chose it for my first centerfire cartridge back in 1982 and have been taking elk with it ever since using 160g bullets.  I reload both belted and non-belted cartridges and have never seen any significance between the two in terms of reloading problems or lack thereof.

Consider bullet availability as well as brass.  You can stock up brass and get a lifetime supply of WSM brass fairly easily but your bullet selection is much more limited than with the 7mm Rem Mag.

Also, since you will be reloading, consider the .300 Win Mag.  It can easily be downloaded to .308 velocities, which is exactly what I did first thing with mine.  It can also be loaded to its capability in which case it shoots flatter than the 7mm Rem Mag and recoil is still acceptable.

[DakotaElkSlayer]

  How does the 325WSM have less recoil than a 300wm???  Looking at the manual, looks like the 325WSM has more velocity for the same bullet weight than the 300WM.  Newton's Second Law tells us that for the same weight gun, the one shooting the faster bullet will have more recoil.
  Yup, another vote for the .280Rem!   Oh ya, if you are tempted to really push the pressure when reloading, just download the "point blank" software...  Using that software you will see even driving the bullet an extra 100fps is pretty much meaningless in the real world.

Jim

[azmike]

I don't know much about the .325, but I have a 7mm Rem mag, which I bought in the early 90's as a replacement for my old 30-06.  I bought it specifically for Mule Deer and Elk in Central WA, where I grew up. 

If a .280 had been available in a left hand bolt at the time, I would probably have still have bought the 7mm Rem Mag at that time, because I wanted to be able to push the limits of the round.  Today, I would go for the .280, just because I would want to load it down more easily.

If you get the 7 mag, stick with 160 or 175 grain bullets.  I have seen the 140 and 145 grain bullets do quite a bit of meat damage, and the 175's do hardly any. 

At any rate, welcome home, enjoy your search, and thank you for your Service.

[BigJakeJ1s]

I think you should get the 325wsm, since that will keep the market viable for 8mm bullets for my 8x57!

325 (.323/8mm) is a nice compromise between 308 and 338.

Andy

[Slamfire]

So then are you putting in another vote for the 280 or are you giving the 325 the nod?

Neither, I'm a 6.5 mm fanatic. 

[ctrout]

Well, after much deliberation, it looks like I'm going with neither.  I have committed to building a custom Savage 110 in 338-06.  Looks like it'll do all I need it to and then some.  Got a decent deal on an action and a great deal on a barrel, dies and a few components.  I'll eventually get a nice glass-bedded stock and a nicer scope and mount.  210 grain Partitions at over 2800fps or 225 grain soft points at well over 2700fps should do the trick on elk or deer with little meat damage.