Author Topic: Higher prices in South Africa?  (Read 1750 times)

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Offline Sverre A.

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Higher prices in South Africa?
« on: August 05, 2007, 11:59:31 AM »
Do you think the huntingprices in SA will increase because of the trouble in Zim (bigger huntingpressure in other african countries)?

Offline Grumulkin

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Re: Higher prices in South Africa?
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2007, 02:43:23 AM »
They'll increase but not because of the Zimbabwe problems.

Offline Sverre A.

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Re: Higher prices in South Africa?
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2007, 04:12:32 AM »
Why?

Offline Dusty Miller

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Re: Higher prices in South Africa?
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2007, 02:25:46 PM »
'Cuz JJ is buying a new Land Rover!!
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Offline Grumulkin

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Re: Higher prices in South Africa?
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2007, 11:16:38 PM »
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Why?

Zimbabwe has had problems for a long time.  It can only get a little bit worse before it gets better.  The hardy souls who have braved that country these many years will probably continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

Of more pertinence is Tanzania's recent huge price increase for trophy fees.  That will give other countries, including South Africa, an incentive to raise prices as well.

Offline Syncerus

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Re: Higher prices in South Africa?
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2007, 05:30:12 AM »
The market for high end luxury goods is always very thin, so raising prices dramatically is a very dangerous thing to do. If they keep it up, they'll kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.

Of course, third world governments are pretty good at that.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Higher prices in South Africa?
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2007, 05:41:41 AM »
I'm not sure I'd call an African safari "high end luxury goods" but I disagree with your comment regarding those. The folks rich enough to afford truly high end luxury goods have enough of it that price is really of no concern. Ya know kinda like "if you have to ask the price then you really can't afford it" sorta thing.

Recently an old Parker A1 Special that wasn't even still original sold for $287,000. Folks who have that kinda money to spend are really not concerned about or turned off by price increases on true high end luxury goods.

But I think more working class folks who do have to struggle a little to put together the money go to Africa today than those kinda folks. To people who would go and take game like lion and elephant and perhaps even hippo and rhino and especially more than one of them per trip the price is likely not a real issue as money just isn't a concern to them. It's the working man after plains game that I suspect is the heart of the safari trade today tho and to those folks large price increases definitely do matter.


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Offline Sverre A.

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Re: Higher prices in South Africa?
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2007, 09:17:58 AM »
"The market for high end luxury goods is always very thin"

Not all hunts in SA is for people with a lot of money.

Example:

5 days 1:1 hunting none-throphy 2 Blue W.beest and 2 impala mails for USD 2550,-.
+ flytickets from where you are living in the world.

Even "working people" can afford prices like this.


Offline Syncerus

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Re: Higher prices in South Africa?
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2007, 10:05:30 AM »
I have news for you. By the standards of the third-world, anyone from Europe or America hunting in Africa IS rich. By any rational standard, African big game hunting is a sport of the wealthy. My point is this: the fellow who lays down $100k for a 30 day safari is unlikely to be discouraged by a price increase of $10-15,000. The successful but not rich hunters who make up the bread and butter of the safari trade are very likely to be effected by more modest changes in pricing.

Many successful men are willing to pay the price to hunt Africa, although that requires a certain degree of sacrifice in other areas, and negotiation with one's spouse, etc. Since hunting Africa entails a great deal of pain ($$$$) for most of us (not all), any increase in the barrier to entry can have a disproportionate effect in the gross number of traveling hunters.

Whenever Africa is mentioned as a hunting destination, the fact that the trip is a good deal on a per-animal shot basis is usually mentioned. Once that's no longer the case due to increased expenses, you can count on the popularity of African hunting to wane. There will always be a market for uniquely African animals, but the bread and butter of the trade (plains game hunting of common species) will vanish.
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Offline JJHACK

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Re: Higher prices in South Africa?
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2007, 01:26:01 PM »
Sverre, Who the heck wants to go all the way to Africa for five days to shoot 4 non-trophy animals when you cannot even keep the meat? with the airfare at 2500bucks and the cost of the hunt you gave that's 5K USD

Over 1000 bucks per animals and they are just for meat which you cannot even keep!

I suggest that for 5000 you get 4 trophy animals and 9 days. Package that with some reasonable airfare and you have a hunt that will mean something. A trophy Kudu bull, impala,, warthog and another animal. How can you compare 4 puny nontrophy animals for 5 days, when for 5000 you can hunt  over a week for the trophies of a lifetime?
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Offline Sverre A.

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Re: Higher prices in South Africa?
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2007, 02:54:03 PM »
JJHACK:

Can you imagine that somebody not are interested in trophyhunting?
Can you imagine that somebody feels that they are afforded to spend 2500 - but not 5000?
Can you imagine that somebody feels that they have the same exitement when they stalk a 45" Kudu as a 52" Kudu?
Can you imagine that somebody not are allowed (from their familys) to spend more than 7 days (incl. travellingtime) of total avacation, and get a limit about what they can spend of money for an "ego-trip"?
Can it be "poor" youngsters/students who want to travel to SA - with "all" the money they have saved?

I have shot most of the species you can find in East Cape (also good trophies) and I have shot a lot of them within the years with my handguns.
I have a really good time when I stalk - whatever size of the animal. 
When I stalked and shot a good (but only good) buffalo with the 454 in Zim  - I did not think much about the bigger one I could have shot if I had waited a day or two.  That "trophy" was big enough for me.

My periode as a trophyhunter is over.  When I hunt in SA - I just stalk for warthogs (of any size), and sometimes I just have one week to spend for a hunt (can you really think about such an idiot?).

But now we are "out of the tread"!

What do you think about increased prices or not?

Offline JJHACK

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Re: Higher prices in South Africa?
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2007, 03:09:28 PM »
I see quite a difference between a guy like you who has taken good trophies and somebody whom has never been there.

Why blow off all the available money you have in 2007 when waiting another year can actually get you trophy quality?

This whole thing is just silly and no longer worthy of discussion. I have never in  15 years of arranging hunts had a single hunter out of about 400 now that have ever asked for a four animal "cheap" non trophy hunt. Not a single time EVER. I have actually offered these hunts to kids and other travelers. However the cost of getting back the skulls and skins would have another expense.

If this is the kind of hunt those from Europe like RSA has that available. However to my knowledge and experience I have never had a single hunter want to spend over 2000 bucks on airfare to go shoot four meat animals for 2500 bucks.

If anybody out there wants to go shoot four cull animals in five days for 2500 bucks let me know I can certainly hook you up..............But I don't think that's gonna happen The time change alone makes a five day trip unrealistic to enjoy it. From the west coast it's a 9 hour difference.
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Offline WL44

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Re: Higher prices in South Africa?
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2007, 09:57:30 PM »
This is an interesting thread. Almost like a campfire discussion!

I understand both approaches. When I first hunted I didn't care at all about trophy quality - I just wanted to be out there hunting. Now I'm somewhat more interested in trophy quality animals - but not exclusively (but then of course we keep the meat). Some guys I know struggle to keep trophies as their wives don't like it and they try to respect that by not hanging heads around the house! :-) For them, saving the cash may be the way to go. Unless a photograph is worth the extra $$.

I'm trying to set-up a hunt in Europe in November and will only be able to afford and set up a non-trophy hunt. For the price I'm going to have that experience too, even though no trophies are involved. It will be the first time in snow - ever! I'm just as excited by the prospect. I also feel that if you plan too far ahead you may never do it as circumstances may change, both financially and physically (health issues). I'm all for seizing the day - such as it may be at the time.

It's interesting to me to see the views and how we sometimes struggle to understand why people do something. I suppose the ultimate comparison is a non-hunter who can't understand why we hunt at all! We are all different and in some ways always changing. That's what makes life interesting and great.

There's also often a quantity and quality issue in there for trophy hunts - poorer trophies are cheaper and you get more "bang for buck". You can hunt a lot more if you don't go for the biggest.

To me it all makes sense. Its all about priorities and percieved "value".





Offline Sverre A.

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Re: Higher prices in South Africa?
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2007, 01:26:17 AM »
Somebody likes the mother while others like the daughter  ;)

What do you think about increased prices or not?

Offline Ramhunter

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Re: Higher prices in South Africa?
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2007, 05:20:04 AM »
By far the vast majority of the hunting in South Africa and Namibia is for plains game (I would guess well in excess of 90%).  On the other hand, few people travel to Tanzania and Zim strictly for a plains game hunt.  Almost all are primarily after some of the "Big Five" with plains game being a nice add-on.  In addition there are a tremendous number of outfitters in S.A. (and a large and quickly growing number in Namibia) that are all competing fiercely for the typical plains game hunter.  Bottom line: I don't think hunt pricing in Tanzania is going to have much significant effect on the vast majority of hunt pricing In South Africa or Namibia.

It will, of course potentially impact the relatively limited hunting for the big five in these countries.

Offline Grumulkin

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Re: Higher prices in South Africa?
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2007, 10:47:54 PM »
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I suggest that for 5000 you get 4 trophy animals and 9 days

Actually, I did better than that.  Not counting air fare and the extra animals I took (4 were included), I got 3 weeks in RSA for less than $2,000.  All of the animals I took, except for a lame warthog the PH wanted me to put out of its misery and a zebra that doesn't have a standing in trophy records, were eligible for the Safari Club record book.  My blue wildebeest was a "gold medal" animal.

All that said, one's home can only hold so many trophies.  Once I have a good representative of a species, cull hunting will work for me.

Offline JJHACK

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Re: Higher prices in South Africa?
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2007, 03:27:36 AM »
21 days and four trophy animals for 2000 bucks eh!  That's a hella good deal, about 75% below most costs I would rekon. Was this in 1925? You should stick with that outfit as they are so far below normal it's an exceptional find for you. I would not be able to afford the 2000 bucks for the daily fee on 21 days alone much less throwing in four "trophy"animals on top of that.

Most quality lodging will run in the 175-250 per day range (2X1), just because of the government mandated minimum requirements. With your daily fee of about 80 bucks a day the PH must have worked for free and I can't imagine how they met the minimum staffing requirements, food, drinks, fuel and vehicle costs with a PH for that amount?
Plus four animals they just threw in for free I guess?
Good for you!
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Offline Sverre A.

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Re: Higher prices in South Africa?
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2007, 03:46:49 AM »
Maybe I should asked: Lower prices in South Africa :D

Offline Grumulkin

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Re: Higher prices in South Africa?
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2007, 01:36:13 PM »
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That's a hella good deal, about 75% below most costs I would rekon.

That's what I thought as well.  Of course, between the two of us that went, we shot probably 16 to 18 more animals than was included in the package so I think the outfitter did OK.

I'm going back in 2008 with an excellent price for the daily rate and not so many included animals.  I'm taking a lot more money with me this time.

And for Sverre; I think trophy fees in Namibia and Zimbabwe are on the whole better than in South Africa.  If you don't care if you can't use a handgun and are paying the going rates, Namibia in my opinion would be an excellent place to consider hunting (and hopefully I'll get to do so at some point).  Due to the political situation there, I wouldn't consider Zimbabwe though at present.

Offline Sverre A.

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Re: Higher prices in South Africa?
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2007, 07:53:29 PM »
Grumulkin:

I only hunt with handguns - when I`m travelling abroad.