Author Topic: Canned hunt? (Read 1815 times)

bigbore442001 · « **on:** March 10, 2003, 02:58:55 PM »

I'd like to solicit the opinions of the board as to what criteria they use to determine whether a hunt is canned or not? Is it acerage? Is it how difficult the hunt is? Is it the time involved? What do you use to evaluate such a hunt?

willis5 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 11, 2003, 01:58:34 AM »

Good topic.

I think that if the perimeter or fence becomes a major part of the hunt, than it is canned. If hogs normaly bay against a fence, run from one place to another and back again (without much deviation because there isn't much room to hide.)

Varmint Hunter · « **Reply #2 on:** March 11, 2003, 02:47:48 AM »

If I even see an animal retaining fence after the start of the hunt it really "feels" like a canned hunt.

If I travel 6hrs to go on a big game hunt and have to hunt all of 20 minutes total in order to be successful, it's a canned hunt. :?
If I'm on a wild boar hunt, and have elk, polar bears and buffalo pass through my area, it's a canned hunt. :eek:
If I can shoot all five rams from a single treestand, on a single day it's a canned hunt.

VH

IronKnees · « **Reply #3 on:** March 11, 2003, 08:28:14 AM »

I'm going to add my two cents worth by giving you the link to my online magazine...
http://www.accs.net/users/drquick/hfhonlinemagazine.html

I wrote an article about my thoughts on this very subject and it is online right now. Just tab down to the Big Game Hunting column and you will see the article about hunting preserves... Click on the Big Game Hunting link to go to my article... Dave

Graybeard · « **Reply #4 on:** March 11, 2003, 10:55:51 AM »

Personally I don't use the term canned hunt. Yeah I guess some can be that but I just don't use it.

Still how to define what constitues an enjoyable fun hunt is gonna vary greatly from person to person and will to a large extent depend on that person's level of hunting experience and abitity to shoot plus what they are looking for from the hunt.

On Faye's first big game hunt in TX with Thompson Temple it was a rather tough hunt for her because this was her first time for anything bigger than squirrel and I felt she needed to be inside of 50 yards for a good clean kill. Her level of experience just wasn't high enough. What was a tough and frustrating experience for her because of not being able to get within the range limits I set on her would have been a breeze for me even with a handgun.

On a fallow deer hunt in FL I sat a treestand a couple times and got a nicse fallow with handgun. Not overly challenging for me but fun none the less. For the other two guys along on their first handgun hunt it proved more or less beyond their skill level as new handgun hunters and their hunts both were sour badly. On that hunt after we took or deer we could take unlimited eating size hogs as he wanted some off. For me it was no challenge just like shooting sitting ducks to take them over the bait but I was meat hunting not hunting for challenge. Now Faye again thought it quite a hunt to her as she was on her first ever hog hunt. One of the other guys was in over his head here too and only wounded his and never found it.

I don't want to see the fence when hunting and don't want the fence to adversely affect the movement of the animals I take. I want them to appear wild and to flee if they see me. I want enough cover for them to be able to hide successfully.

GB

IronKnees · « **Reply #5 on:** March 11, 2003, 12:14:50 PM »

GB, Very well put... that is the best reply or description of a preserve hunting experience that I have ever seen... EXCELLENT post!!!

JeffG · « **Reply #6 on:** March 11, 2003, 03:23:19 PM »

I'll second that, nice post, Graybeard!

Smokin54 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 16, 2003, 11:13:36 AM »

A Canned hunt ?
There is a place about 50 miles from me that offers a hunt for $25 if you dont shot anything and $275 if you do , I have never hunted there but have heard it is pretty easy to get within 10 yards of the pigs that still have the auction tags on there ear.

IronKnees · « **Reply #8 on:** March 16, 2003, 11:30:01 AM »

Quote from: Smokin54

A Canned hunt ?
There is a place about 50 miles from me that offers a hunt for $25 if you dont shot anything and $275 if you do , I have never hunted there but have heard it is pretty easy to get within 10 yards of the pigs that still have the auction tags on there ear.

Now that really does make you sick... There are many very good operations (lodges and preserves) that will give you a good, clean fair chase hunt, but what you are talking about helps give perserves, and even hunting in general a bad name... Man I hate hearing about something like that...

ahunter55 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 27, 2003, 02:12:17 PM »

I just finished a tour of 3 states & 7 Bowhunts for Exotics, Javalina & Boar to do a informational Bowhunting Video. Some of the facilities were high fence of different sizes & others open Range. I never in one instance in the facilities I Bowhunted felt it was in any way a canned Bowhunt-In fact-on 2 high fence operations I did not get what I was after thou I had a excellent hunt. I DID NOT hunt any facilities that were no kill-no pay.
Enjoy your hunts-no matter what you choose....

willis5 · « **Reply #10 on:** April 27, 2003, 03:50:14 PM »

I agree that it is up to you. GrayBeard once posted the question that if the U.S. was fenced-in would it be a canned hunt if you hunted inside the fence.

I do think that it is canned if the fence gives the game a disadvantage to the hunter. if the fence makes the hunt easier for someone (with a disability, first hunt, etc.) to which it would have been impossible for them to hunt under normal circumstances, then I think it is o.k.

Now if a big game hunter with 200 whitetail kills, 150 bear kills, elk kills, hog, lions and such goes to a preserve that his skills would not be tested when he is hunting for sport, I dont' thinks that is ethical. A Meat hunt... maybe a different story. I think you should hunt to your ability.
Cheers,
willis5

ahunter55 · « **Reply #11 on:** April 29, 2003, 10:39:35 AM »

good post. I do have many Biggame animals to my credit in 45 years of Bowhunting. This past year was my 1st ever high Fence bowhunt & I considered them in no way canned-in fact, I never ever saw the fence in any of the operations & did plenty of walking the terrain. I am in no way a TROPHY hunter thou we all like to take them if possible-I have never went on a Bowhunt-guided OR on my own with the intention of taking nothing but BOOK horns. I enjoy the hunt. I guess if I wanted just record book animals I would have taken up Rifle Hunting thou it is a good sport also. I do have a few that qualify for P&Y but have never entered them-I really don't care for the 15 min. of fame.
I guess it boils down to what the individual considers sport. Good luck to all, no matter what weapon or style you choose.

redhawk44p · « **Reply #12 on:** May 25, 2003, 01:15:48 PM »

I have another facet to add to this post. I live in Indiana we have very little wooded hunting area left in most places. My question is that when a deer is jumped from his bed and attempts to run away then is shot at by a series of hunters who are in every nook he passes is this true hunting? The animal has no where to run because there is a house or a hunter at every turn. I think a lot of us have been on canned hunts but never looked at it that way. The old days of the mountain man are gone and we modern hunters can only take the best opportunities we have. This is a sad thing but a reality.

JeffG · « **Reply #13 on:** May 26, 2003, 01:43:53 PM »

OK, just my two cents...again :grin: I feel that when we hunt, whether it be in the most remote wilderness, or in a pasture that looks like a park, or in a fenced enclosure that prevents the natural ecostructure from being contaminated by exotic animals; remember, hunting is a celebration, a ritual, an excecise in the need, as well as the right to hunt. We return to our neolithic/paleolithic ancestory for just a short time.
For you more scientific out there, the anti hunters, the vegetarians, the goths and psudo vampires, are being revealed as being Y-michondrial chromasome deficient...the "Y" is the hunting chromasome. It has been the goodness and generosity of hunters through out the ages, to feed and house the Y-deficients, as they are weaker, and less adaptive....now they threaten our hunting roots with their politics, their anti hunting deficiencies.

Canned hunt?? Nope, a celebration of hunting. Is going to church a canned hunt? No, we know and expect to find God there. We do, and we celebrate him, and us, and go out into the world... With our busy accelerated life styles, some times we need enclosure hunts...we have to guard against reducing the hunt to a slaughter in a stock yard. It has to be a pure hunt, even on a small scale.
We shouldn't bash each other's hunting, we should stick together...we don't hunt because we want to, but because genetically need to hunt.

willis5 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 27, 2003, 03:26:12 AM »

I understand your point, but I think you may be taking the NEED to hunt a little overboard. I think that there are stronger and weaker drives toward aggresion, hunting, and even timurous attitudes in people, but I don't think that there is a need to hunt. Yes there is a strong drive in many, including myself, but I don't think I would die for lack of hunting as it pertains to my survival. Would I want to die if I couldn't hunt... yes. But would I? No. I will a gree more if you used drive or desire to hunt as opposed to need.

Now before some people get upset about this post, I want to clarify.

I view a "need" as a requirement to sustain life, and not a desire. If one is not relying on hunting for food to sustain life, then I would consider it more of a want or desire.[/b]

WyoHunter · « **Reply #15 on:** May 27, 2003, 12:13:04 PM »

Although I have taken some exotics with a rifle my primary method of hunting is by bow. Bowhunting places more emphasis on getting close for a shot which changes the name of the game. Just because you can see them doesn't mean you can kill 'em. I have hunted on acreage as small as 150 acres but with brush so thick you had to stalk on the hog trails that went the thickets. On that two day hunt we were 1 for 2. What bothers me most about the "canned " aspect isn't the confinement but whether the game walks up to you and is looking for a handout. One of the reasons I hunt hogs and exotics is I like seeing the different species even though I'm not going to shoot them. As long as the game makes me HUNT for it I'm happy. Anyone who goes to a hunt operation and thinks it's going to be a wilderness hunt is kidding themselves. It's great if you have access to free-ranging hogs and exotics but most of us have to travel and take vacation and book a hunt on a game ranch in order to have a chance at harvesting an animal.

willis5 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 28, 2003, 06:09:48 AM »

That is a good point. Is it really hunting if the animals are tame? do you want to shoot an animal that wants to be petted by you? Not me.

WyoHunter · « **Reply #17 on:** May 28, 2003, 07:36:17 AM »

Fortunately for all of us there are forums such as this that have commentary about specific game ranches and how their hunts are conducted. Most forums have specific topics addressing hog/wild boar hunting, exotic hunting and game ranches. Take advantage of this resource in finding out about information on this subject. :wink:

redhawk44p · « **Reply #18 on:** May 28, 2003, 08:32:48 AM »

I don't know about you guys but when I enter a enclosure of any size with a wild boar I don't feel any guilt, given the least opportunity the boar will turn you into ground round. If anyone thinks the boar wants to be petted I will pay to watch. :shock:

denvas · « **Reply #19 on:** May 28, 2003, 11:42:06 AM »

All of the posts in this thread have been very informative and thought provoking. I believe the decision to hunt or not hunt a high fenced enclosure is a personal choice that each of us must make based upon our own personal hunting related ethics. And ethics are something that, thank the good Lord, are different for each of us. They are objective and based upon our own lifes experiences and teachings. We will never agree on one definition of what fair chase hunting consists of as along as each of us continues to exercise our right to be individuals and not societys drones. I have and will probably continue to hunt high fenced hunting preserves. No, I am not talking about 50 acre holding pen enclosures where the animals come running at the sound of the truck expecting to be fed, but operations that offer a true fair chase hunt based upon both the animals ability to avoid the hunter and the hunters ability to harvest an animal.

For example I sponsor several hunts for first time youth hunters each year. We average around 150-200 kids a year on these hunts. When everything works out ok most of the kids who come to these events have never fired a firearm larger than a .22 before and have never hunted a big game animal. After day of hunter ed, firearm safety and shooting activities we take them out hunting for exotic rams, does and hogs. The smallest ranch we utilize for this is 750 acres and the largest is 157,000+ acres. Now I will admit up front that on some of these ranches these animals are very easy to pursue. An adult with a good rifle, pistol or bow could easily walk up to within 25 yards or closer of some of these animals and have a very easy shot. However, we make these same hunts into very exciting adventures for these kids by crawling around the vegetation and using the terrain to ad a bit of challenge to the stalk. Is this unethical? Not in my book. We are taking unskilled hunters and using the terrain offered to teach them the basics of stalking and trailing skills. It is not our intent to teach them everything there is to know about hunting but rather we are trying to expose them to the outdoors and lay a foundation for them to expand upon and develop their own desire for hunting and shooting.

I have also been on ranches where experienced adult hunters were put into small enclosures that were overstocked with basically barnyard animals and told to whack em and stack. Is this ethical in my books, NO! But will I condemn those who chose to participate in these events, another no. These hunters must live by their own set of ethics and be able to sleep at night. If they want to go home and fabricate a fairy tail about how hard they had to hunt for these animals, I dont agree with this practice, but that is their choice. I dont respect them either and chose not hunt with this kind individual.

Like many on this board I have several heads that would qualify for the various record keeping systems but do not hunt in order to enter heads in record books. Instead, I hunt for the challenge, adventure and thrill of the chase associated with hunting based upon what my definitions of these expectations are. I guess what I am trying to say is that in the end each of us must answer to ourselves as to what our hunting ethics are and how we choose to follow them. Maybe those hunters who none of us choose to hunt with or have in our hunting camps will get the message one of these days.

ahunter55 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 29, 2003, 02:43:54 PM »

I have been blessed with 45 years of Bowhunting & have traveled to many places bowhunting Elk, Mule deer, Whitetail, Black Bears, Caribou, Javalina & wild Hogs on public land & a few open range hunts (no enclosures) with great success-I experienced my 1st high fence Bowhunt about 1 1/2 years ago with nearly a year of research & help from many Texas Bowhunters. I enjoy the Exotic/Hog hunting greatly & thou high fence have always found it challenging-I have not always taken an animal & none have been a walk in the park. There are many fine operations out there to give the novice & expert a fine time in the field. I look forward to my next trip this fall after our Deer season (we have some dandies & I hunt Whitetails at home (Ill., Iowa & Ws.) but for the Bowhunters of Texas & Oklahoma you have a bonus with the Exotic/Hog hunting that we in the midwest & north do not have available. Enjoy any hunt you can-it is a gift that many do not enjoy. Good luck to all on your next trip..