6.5mm/7mm match grade bullets

[swampthing]

Anybody trying heavy, 140g 6.5mm or 160g 7mm, match grade bullets at low velocity {ie; under 1700fps} on deer sized game.
Looks like they wont expand too much and should penetrate deep enough. 

[jhalcott]

  Swamp, I would NOT advise using MATCH grade bullets on game. They MAY not react like you think they should. I have used cast 7mm bullets on deer. They were 168 grain RCBS FNGC cast from a WW/lead alloy. The deer were shot at less than 100 yards in drive ways and lawns of houses located next to the fairway of a new golf course.  Muzzle velocity was barely above 1100 fps, and no deer shot at was lost. A few did run, but the longest dash was less than about 75 yards.  IF I could have gotten permission to use a suppressor I coud not have done much better. I borrowed a 300 whisper from a friend. The 16" barrel with 180 and 200 grain bullets was noticeably louder and the bullets were NOT stopped by the 2 deer I shot with that setup. Perhaps the 240 grain bullets would have acted differently!??
   A friend hunted the Eastern Shore of maryland many years ago. He used a match bullet in his 30/30 and put a nasty surface wound on a deer that another hunter killed a few seconds later. The buck had been about 75 yards away when 1st shot. The other guy shot it thru the other side and exited near the last rib. My friends shot hit just behind the shoulder,catching a rib. It must have exploded on the rib as there was a 4x6" hole in the skin. Several ribs were exposed. He had pictures to show us what WE had told him might happen.

[sweetwyominghome]

Forget about it. There are a number of good bullets available that will perform well, but each does best within certain velocity windows. In the 6.5s, one of the best medium game bullets is the 120 grain Ballistic Tip, and I've used it for years to take dozens of animals. Given 2400 fps at the muzzle, you will get good expansion out to 300 yards -- father than most folks should be shooting anyway. The Speer 120 grain Hot Core does fine and will expand with an impact velocity (NOT muzzle velocity) as low as 1850 fps. In the 7mms, the 120 grain BT is the ne plus ultra for the medium capacity rounds. The single shot pistol bullets from Sierra are history, and the Hornady replacement for its SSP is the 120 grain V-Max, and its performance on game for me has been adequate but certainly not stellar.

If you are shooting something with more capacity that allows higher velocity, you may be able to move up to conventional rifle-type bullets. But you did not mention the calibers you are working with.

[swampthing]

6.5 or 7mm heavy for caliber bullets, 160-170g. Match bullets I understand are basically pure, soft, lead inside. Driving them slow @1500fps MV, or so, I don't see why they would expand too much inside game, they aren't going fast enough.

[jhalcott]

  The jackets MAY be too thick to allow for expansion at any velocity. Those bullets are made for shooting PAPER targets NOT live game. They may also blow up on the surface and NOT penetrate to the vitals if a bone is hit. What are you planning on shooting these bullets at? What does the game laws in YOUR area say about caliber and muzzle energy. My state has specific rules about the ammo and energy for deer hunting.

[jhalcott]

  With the 162 gr BTHP Match bullet @ 1500 fps muzzle velocity, you will get less than 900 fpe of muzzle energy. A drop of over 7" at200 yds with a substantial drop in energy and velocity.

[Lone Star]

...I don't see why they would expand too much inside game, they aren't going fast enough.

This is such a bad idea that Sierra, one of the largest match bullet makers on earth, have devoted several paragraphs in their manuals stating you should NOT use match bullets on game.  Sierra makes bullets similar to their match bullets that are designed for use on game - but you should not use match bullets on game.  No match bullets on game.  Get it? 


.

[sweetwyominghome]

swampthing wrote: "I don't see why they would expand too much inside game, they aren't going fast enough"

No one said ANYTHING about too much expansion. The majority of match bullets were not designed for game, period. At 1500 fps, they'll probably pencil all the way through and leave minimal damage in its wake -- not a good scenario, to be certain.

Why would you even consider this idea???

[swampthing]

Hollow Point Boat Tails should readily expand. FMJ's, no way, illegal anyway.
Goal: DEER, inside 100yds, low velocity, quiet, low recoil.
 I've heard of people using 162g A-MAX's from 7mm mags for +500yd hunting and having awesome results, same with the sierras. Given that the impact velocity at 500yds, when fired from typical 2900fps loads, is about 2100fps or so. These bullets are proving to be clean killers at that range, with complete penetration not being uncommon, {ie:reduced velocity}... makes me wonder if one just slowed them down a bit and kept shots inside 100yds or so to ensure some expansion... a 160g 7mm slug with a bit of expansion on it should plow pretty deep once inside.
  Obviously one could not reduce the velocity of a standard spitzer hunting bullet much below 2200fps if they wanted to make clean kills on "distant" game, but if they are slowed down a bit, and, tested into some wet newspaper... HEAVY, HPBT, match, but soft bullets...  that is the question.
 I know that "they" recommend not using match bullets on game, and would never do so... at full throttle, why bother...
 

[sweetwyominghome]

There is a significant difference in terminal performance between a 162 grain A-Max at 2100 fps and the same bullet at "under 1700 fps." Also, not until you get subsonic will a load be noticeably quieter, so there's no advantage to be gained there as you'll still get the super-sonic crack.

Lastly, wet newspaper is a POOR medium to assess a bullet's on-game terminal performance.

As to a 7mm Mag taking game at 500 yards, I will only say this (and some folks don't buy into it, but I've seen it time and again): A bullet that starts out at high velocity and then impacts at long range at, say, 2100 fps will expand more readily than one that started out at 2200 fps and impacted just barely downrange at the same 2100 fps.

Don't believe me? Load up a 45 grain Hornet bullet at top speed in a 22-250. Fire it into test medium at a distance that will give you an impact speed of 2000 fps. Then load up the same bullet in a reduced load at 2000 fps and fire it into the same test medium from close range. You will see a distinct difference in the 2 recovered projectiles. And whether or not pent-up centrifugal force is the driving factor is moot; after all, the results speak for themselves.

Please forget about this idea. As you can tell, several of us here have been trying to steer you in the right direction. Please heed the advice of folks who have meaningful experience. As a hunter, it's your responsibility to strive for quick, clean kills. What you are contemplating is more of a stunt than anything else.

[jhalcott]

   Swamp. the worst thing to be invented for hunters is the LASER RANGE FINDER! The guys I hunted ground hogs with in my 20's made LOTS of 400+ yards shots. When I got my 1st LRF, I found those fields seldom gave a 400 plus shot! I can TELL you about making 800 yard shots. I will not tell you about the 10 or 20 misses for each LUCKY hit.  I have heard of groups of "HUNTERS" standing beside their vehicle ahooting at a herd of Elk at 5-600 yards with NO hits in 15 shots. BUT that is off the topic. just don't do it!

[swampthing]

I'll stay with my .44mag. {280g LBT WFN GC @ 1250fps.} Its quiet, low recoil, 100yd effective, kills faster than the 30 '06's Ive witnessed.
Thanks.

[sweetwyominghome]

Good choice. I'm using the 320 grain version of that very bullet (from Cast performance) and am thoroughly pleased with it. At nearly 1400 fps from a 9.5" barrel and over 1300 fps from a 7.5" tube, it takes care of business quickly and efficiently.