New model 40 barrel roughness

[Kmrere42]

Hi,

I just picked up a new hornet and I am having trouble with it.  groups at 100 yards are in the 2 -3 inch size and when I clean it my brushes are shredded.  When I went to measure the barrel with a small hole gauge it stopped about 1.5" in from the muzzle like it hit a shelf.  Though I do not have a bore-scope I can see slight rings where the initial drilling of the bore was not cleaned up by the rifling process. I will be sending it back for a new barrel.


Have anyone else came across something like this..


Paul

[LaOtto222]

I do not have a model 40, but have had some barrel "trouble" experience. I had a 22 magnum where there was a definite barrel blemish about 1.5 - 2 inches from the muzzle. When the dovetail was cut for the front sight, it distorted the rifling under the cut. I finally cut off 2.5 inches and recrowned the barrel. It improved my groups considerably. I also had an inexpensive SS 223 barrel that was very rough through the whole length of the barrel. It would copper foul in just 3 shots so bad that it would throw fliers. I fixed it by polishing the bore with Mothers metal polish and JB bore bright. This took a lot of polishing. I would shoot 15- 20 rounds and bring it in clean it up and stroke it about 200 times with the Mothers and then 100 more with JB. Repeat, repeat, repeat. I could not tell you how many times I went through this cycle. It was a lot of them. It finally smoothed out enough to shoot very well with out fouling up quickly. The groups shrunk and with no fliers. It sure took a lot of elbow grease to clean it up. I do not use a metal brush in my bores. I have used plastic brushes but mostly tight fitting patches on a jag and or foam in mine, so I do not know if the rough barrel would have chewed up a metal brush or not. BTW When I polish a bore I stroke both ways, when cleaning I only go from the chamber to muzzle. I then take off the patch/plastic brush and pull the rod back and refit a patch or the brush and push through again. The rough barrel had spots that dragged when running a tight patch through. It did not pull chunks off of the patch, just threads. It sounds like you have a much more serious problem.

[1armoured]

My Model 40 shoots good.

Barrel is perfect.
I gave it a little polish inbetween shots with JB's,
and am happy with it.
Managed down to .35 with 5 shot groups at 100mtrs with my handloads.

I guess with a 'budget' mass produced rifle, some problems in manufacture are bound to happen.
Quality control/testing should have picked it up though !
cheers,
Sean in 'Godzone'

[nofun1]

Mine is a great shooter but I'm sure Savage will take care of you I sent mine back for an ejection problem and had it back in 2 weeks. I have had Savage send me parts for the asking on other guns. their customer service is great. The only two things I hate about mine is loading cartridges sucks and I hate the rimfire ejector that makes you have to use a crappy 22rf bore guide. All in all I think youll like it when you get it back. 

[1armoured]

I agree, single loading a small cartridge, with the scope obstructing the process, is a pain in the butt.

Left hand port, right hand bolt would have been better for shooting off a rest on the bench.

Magazine load has it's drawbacks as well, i.e. seating the longer bullets out a bit.

A captive magazine generally lets you load one from the top even if it's overlength, which I do in my other rifles.

I've never had any problems with extraction or ejection, thankfully, or any other issues.
I bought it as a 'budget' fun gun, and that's just what it is.
I was pleasantly surprised with it's potential accuracy, and it's such fun to shoot,
cheers,
Sean

[Kmrere42]

Hi,

I wish that this rifle was made in left hand.   I will be buying a CZ when it becomes available......   During my initial inspection of the rifle for chips and other debris left over from the manufacturing process, I had found that the one piece ejector and cartridge tray was made of really soft stamped sheet metal.  I had to clean off a few burrs to smooth up the feeding and them re-bend the ejector back into position. 

I will call them to see where my rifle is.


Paul

[LaOtto222]

I have a couple of Savage 200's that I converted to single shots. I removed the ejector (not extractor) on both of them. I lay the cartridge on the loading tray and jack it home. When I pull the bolt back the cartridge stays on the end of the bolt. I just pick it off with my finger tip. It works when it is fired and it works when it has not been fired. I got tired of picking up cases off of the ground.

[Kmrere42]

O.K.  Just got word back.  Savage is going to replace the whole rifle.  While my groups were in the 2" - 4" size the the placement was so high that I had to shim the scope with a .015" shim in front and still had the scope at its maximum adjustment.  I will let you know how it is when I get it back.




Paul

[LaOtto222]

Please do The model 40's have a reputation of good accuracy. 

[Kmrere42]

Still waiting........    Word is that the new rifle was taken to the factory range and tested.   That is the last info I have received.     Will update when I learn more.




Paul

[Kmrere42]

Yea........       Just got it back last night.........         To the range.....




Will let you know how it shoots.....




Paul

[LaOtto222]

Please do. I like range reports

[Kmrere42]

O.K.   Back from the range.



Factory ammo is doing a respectable inch at 100yds.   My handloads however suck.  I am having a real problem with the brass.  I am using Remington cases with Rem sm pistol primers and 12gr Lil'Gun for powder.  Bullets are Hornady 40gr v-max polymer tips.  By the book pressures should be in the 32k CUP range with max for the cartridge being 43K Cup.  My brass is being pounded around the head like the were in the 50k cup range... Also I am seating the bullets about .050 off the lands.. Powder is being weighed each charge on a new RCBS 750 Rangemaster scale.








Paul

[LaOtto222]

Your powder charge does not SEEM to be too heavy. Why were you using small pistol primers? Most reloading books recommend small rifle primers. I do not know if that is causing your over pressure problems or not. Changing primers can cause over pressure problems. From what I have read about Lil'Gun is that the case should be full or near full.  Hodgdon's has 12.0 grains as the starting load with WW cases and 40 grain bullets. I believe the REM case has a little more capacity. It is possible that you have too little powder in the case causing a over pressure situation. Using small pistol primers may compound this problem. When you said "pounded around the head" do you mean that the case is bulging just above the web area? Are you talking about virgin brass or have they been reloaded several times? I take it that the factory brass is not doing this. How do the primers look? Do you see some cratering around the firing pin dent? Are the primers flattened out? 22 Hornet cases are notoriously thin and they stretch right above the web. They are worse than any thing else I reload for. The only case head separation I have ever gotten was with the 22 Hornet. Since you are having trouble with pressure...I would find a reloading manual and make up a few loads with their recommendations for case, primer, bullet weight, powder weight(start low, but not below recommended levels) and OAL. After finding the results, then move up the powder weight (with caution) or change one component at a time (with caution). Just some things to think about.

[Kmrere42]

Hi,


Well I am getting there.  At the advice from one of the guys at my local club I changes brass to winchester as they thought that Remington brass was too thin and soft.  Here is my latest try.  Everything else stayed the same.  I had pulled the last shot down.




LaOtto222,  A number of people who are loading the hornet are finding that the use of small pistol primers helps with velocity consistency.  I have included a picture of the brass.  It's a little hard to see in a picture but the cartridge has a well defined ring around the pressure ring area of the case.  This is a second loading neck size only although not in this rifle.  It wasn't just the ring on the case but the wide variation of pressure indications and scattered impact on target.


Paul

[LaOtto222]

It looks like you are doing well. I am aware of people getting good results with pistol primers with the 22 Hornet. I was suggesting going to small rifle primers to kind of get you back to center so to speak with your pressure problem. Small pistol primers do not handle as much pressure as do small rifle primers either. Of course the Lil'Gun should not produce as much pressure as some loads do. Is the only change you made in your loads the cases? Of course the Winchester brass does not have as much volume as the REM cases. This could have fixed your problem with too much volume with the powder charge you were using. You might be surprised that pressure would actually go down if you used more powder in the REM cases(theory). Lil'Gun does strange things if there is too much case room (high pressures). I have read that people were using REM cases because they could not get enough powder into the Winchester cases with Lil'Gun, they were stuffing as much as they could get into the case and still seat a bullet and still not reaching the pressure limits. At any rate it looks to me that you are on the right track, good shooting It looks as though your new rifle is the cat's meow.