a bad collet die?

[351 power]

i sized a bunch of brass thru a lee collet die. when i tried to seat bullets the necks were too loose to hold the bullets. i set it to have the tightest possible neck wth no improvement. then i even tried it with 2 extra turns of the die. what's the deal?

[rickyp]

did you try and resizing the brass a second time but with a 1/2 turn of the brass before resizing?

Resize the brass the turn the case 1/2 turn and resize again normally works for me

[cwlongshot]

did you try and resizing the brass a second time but with a 1/2 turn of the brass before resizing?

Re size the brass the turn the case 1/2 turn and re size again normally works for me

 This works for me too. I believe its listed as an optional way to do it. But its the way I have always used them.

 If still no. Take it apart and give it a good cleaning. Maybe something got in there....

 CW

[Davemuzz]

When you say you gave it "2 X-tra turns of the die" what exactely do you mean? Does the bottom of the die come in contact with the shell holder when you raise the brass up into the die? This should happen as this is what causes the die to work. (You may already know this, so please pardon me if I am repeating something you already know).

Dave

[steve4102]

  When setting up the Collet die it is important not to let the press "cam over".   This can damage the die. If the press cams over you should screw the die in a bit more.  All it takes is about 25lbs of pressure on the press handle to size the neck.  Much more than that and you can blow the top off the die.
     I have several Lee Collet Dies and they are great.  The problem with them is the size of the mandrel.  In all but 2 of my collet dies I had to order "Undersized Mandrels" from Lee.  They cost about $5.  If you do not want to order from Lee you can turn the mandrel down by chucking it into a drill and polish it down to you desired size.  I also size, spin 180 and size again.

[LaOtto222]

I have 3 collet dies. I have used the 223 extensively and the 222 some. I have yet to use the 22 Hornet. steve4102 is right, if you put too much pressure on it, it will strip out the threads on the top piece. I know, because I did it. Learned my lesson there. I can actually feel the neck "crush" in on the mandrel. Once that happens, there is no need to put any more power to the handle. I also turn 1/2 turn and recrush. I do not feel it the second time, just put on a little pressure. I have not experienced not crushing down enough. I would suppose that a different (under size) mandrel would take care of it. I personally do not like a lot of friction when seating bullets, but there has to be enough to hold the bullet in place.  I really like mine. I tried to order a custom one in 221 Fire Ball, but they sent my money back and said the case was too short. They make one for the 22 Hornet and it is the same case length as a 221 Fire Ball I had to settle on a neck sizing die with inserts. Good luck on your pursuit, it will be well worth it. The Lee Collet dies are great.  

[Davemuzz]

Good advice from the last 2 post. I was kind of getting there.....but I was taking it slow and methodical, and those guys just "got there" .

Good job!!


Dave

[billy_56081]

I believe that there are instructions with the die to chuck it in a drill and use fine Emory cloth to get a tighter fit.

[351 power]

i measured the mandrel and it was .221. is that oversized? the only press i have is a lee "c" type press. does this make a difference?

[wncchester]

I have and love six of those dies.  Adjusting them is done by results, not following instructions verbatim.  The instructions only get me in the right ball park!  I simply check the bullet fit and adjust up or down a quarter turn or less until it's the way I want it.  Leaning on the lever too much WILL strip the threads in the die's aluminum top cap, it is made to be the "fuse" that limits excess pressure instead of otherwise harming the die or press.  The brand or type of press matters not at alll.

We MUST put sufficient pressure on the lever to actually compress the neck around that mandrel if we are to get the needed reduction in size.  It's a balancing act and there's a learning curve in developing a feel for what we are doing.  No instructions to "touch here and turn 1.87 turns there", etc, can automatically insure that things will magically work.  We must tweak the die and try the fit until it's right.  Then, adjusted correctly, it matters little if the lever cams over or not.

A .221" mandrel should get you normal neck tension for a .224 bullet.  The brass will spring back a bit, frequently about .001", and normal neck tension should be no more than .002" below bullet diameter, otherwise the bullet actually serves as an expander as it's seated.  A bullet "expander" often bends the neck a tiny bit and ruins part of what the Lee collet die strives to accomplish so making the mandrel too small defeats proper results.

Anyone "polishing" down the Lee mandrel should also understand that its diameter below the actual neck portion needs to be the same size or, better yet, a bit smaller.  Otherwise the lower part works as an expander when the sized neck is withdrawn.

[LaOtto222]

I have and love six of those dies.  Adjusting them is done by results, not following instructions verbatim.  The instructions only get me in the right ball park!  I simply check the bullet fit and adjust up or down a quarter turn or less until it's the way I want it.  Leaning on the lever too much WILL strip the threads in the die's aluminum top cap, it is made to be the "fuse" that limits excess pressure instead of otherwise harming the die or press.  The brand or type of press matters not at alll.

We MUST put sufficient pressure on the lever to actually compress the neck around that mandrel if we are to get the needed reduction in size.  It's a balancing act and there's a learning curve in developing a feel for what we are doing.  No instructions to "touch here and turn 1.87 turns there", etc, can automatically insure that things will magically work.  We must tweak the die and try the fit until it's right.  Then, adjusted correctly, it matters little if the lever cams over or not.

A .221" mandrel should get you normal neck tension for a .224 bullet.  The brass will spring back a bit, frequently about .001", and normal neck tension should be no more than .002" below bullet diameter, otherwise the bullet actually serves as an expander as it's seated.  A bullet "expander" often bends the neck a tiny bit and ruins part of what the Lee collet die strives to accomplish so making the mandrel too small defeats proper results.

Anyone "polishing" down the Lee mandrel should also understand that its diameter below the actual neck portion needs to be the same size or, better yet, a bit smaller.  Otherwise the lower part works as an expander when the sized neck is withdrawn.

1st off most of what wncchester says I strongly agree with. A .221" mandrel should be about right. I do not know which Lee press you are using, but it may be springing "stretching" making you think the case neck was crushed against the mandrel when in fact it was not. It does not take a lot of force to do this, but it maybe more than your press can handle without wearing out quickly or breaking. I am guessing a little but I think it takes more force than full length sizing a lubed 223 case. You maybe "babying" it too much; afraid of damaging the press. I have a Lee "C" style press and only use it for light duty chores, like punching out primers or pulling bullets. If the bullets I am pulling are crimped in then I use my cast iron "O" press. Try this...measure the diameter of the neck of an unsized case, then put it in your die and measure the diameter after wards. I suspect that you are not compressing "crushing" the neck at all or very little. As I posted earlier, I do not like a lot of tension on my bullets, but there has to be some tension. I have found that the 223 die I have is about right. I have seated bullets out too far and the rifling will actually push the bullet into the case rather than engrave the bullet when I put the case into the chamber. There is still enough tension that it will not pull out with fingers. I think that it gives you the best consistency for accuracy. I am not telling you your press is a piece of crap, I am telling you that your press MAY not be up to the task you are asking of it.