Author Topic: Blue Carriage Paint (Read 1838 times)

rifleshooter2 · « **on:** July 19, 2007, 01:04:48 PM »

Does anybody have a formula for blue paint used on carriages from rev war through 1812? I have seen olive drab paint from Civil war but nothing from earlier eras.

Andy
Legion Ville Historical Society
www.legionville.com

GGaskill · « **Reply #1 on:** July 19, 2007, 01:37:37 PM »

The blue was most likely Prussian Blue. What was used as the base was probably linseed oil. Lead white was first available as pigment in antiquity and that would be my guess as the white pigment that was used. Not sure I would want to mix a lead based paint now, historically correct or not.

In fact, the articles discussing the King howitzer that were posted here sometime back had references to "white lead and Prussion[sic] blue for carriages."

rifleshooter2 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 19, 2007, 01:47:54 PM »

We have found that General Wayne was ordering Both Prussian Blue and Lead White paints but we are not sure what the ratio would have been. If we go by the amount he ordered it looks like 3 parts white to 1 part blue. Looks like time for an experiment.

Andy

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #3 on:** July 19, 2007, 03:02:25 PM »

Mike and I don't know any more about paint formulas than the average person, however, we have extensive experience with using Prussian Blue Dye. CAUTION: If you use this deep blue, very finely divided substance, WATCH OUT! After the container is opened, trying to keep all off this stuff in the proper place is just about impossible. It can be likened to getting a Genie back in the bottle. We used it during the inspection of precision ground aircraft parts as a contact marking agent which shows you what percentage of contact you have after two closely fitting parts are assembled. After using this nasty stuff very, very carefully, we would find little blue spots on our clothing, in our cars, in our homes, just about everywhere. Slightly less authentic cannon carriage paint would certainly be O.K. with everyone we have met who are involved with the creation of authentic cannon. Good luck with your artillery painting!

Regards,

Mike and Tracy

lendi · « **Reply #4 on:** July 19, 2007, 03:14:23 PM »

I have used this product to color brass http://www.birchwoodcasey.com/antiquing/index.html it works well.
Len
DI cannonworks

GGaskill · « **Reply #5 on:** July 19, 2007, 04:01:16 PM »

If you use this deep blue, very finely divided substance, ...

If you get it already in oil, it shouldn't be too difficult to keep under control.

Double D · « **Reply #6 on:** July 19, 2007, 04:32:23 PM »

Andy,

Contact Ft. Ticonderoga and see is the can tell you the correct color. I would also contact any of the guys making full size cannons of that period and see if the will give you a paint chip.

You might also contct the Muzzle Loading Artilleryman and see if they have the formula. We have the formula for the civil war periods colors posted in the reference section...

accuratemike · « **Reply #7 on:** July 20, 2007, 07:32:09 AM »

I would float this topic at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Artillery-list/, Yahoo! ArtilleryList, too. This board is definitely where all the fun is, but that is an 18thC list. I think it is an offshoot of RevList. I would be anxious to see you get a solution as well. I'll be watching

. Good luck, MIKE

dominick · « **Reply #8 on:** July 20, 2007, 11:23:45 AM »

I will upload a photo shortly

Don Krag · « **Reply #9 on:** July 20, 2007, 05:57:57 PM »

Hmm...I have some coomassie blue dust. I wonder if that would work as a substitute for prussian blue? It's a protein stain and a very, very small pinch will turn you into a smurf for a couple months! My standing mortar is going to be a light blue. Would the prussian/lead white be something used in India circa 1840's, or would it more likely be something else?

GGaskill · « **Reply #10 on:** July 20, 2007, 06:48:42 PM »

I am guessing that indigo, which was common in India, was the blue pigment, but it's not clear that indigo is a suitable paint pigment versus cloth dye.

Double D · « **Reply #11 on:** July 21, 2007, 08:57:06 PM »

Another place to contact for color would be Fort McHenry

They have blue carriages there.

They also had some red

dominick · « **Reply #12 on:** July 24, 2007, 04:09:59 PM »

These are other cannon at Valley Forge

rifleshooter2 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 25, 2007, 03:56:05 PM »

Thanks for all the advice were going to do some mixing experiments next week, I'll let you know the results.

Andy

Tropico · « **Reply #14 on:** July 25, 2007, 09:37:59 PM »

whoa those are some nice looking guns ! I had to copy DD's Red guns and Dominicks Blue Valleyforge gallopers. !!

rifleshooter2 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 27, 2007, 10:33:22 AM »

OK I found this out. This was written by Mark Hilliard who is with the Marines on the Constitution. He is connected with several museums, etc. The whole article is about canteens but states it is to recreate light blue paint for "canteens, knapsacks,ORDINANCE CARRIAGES, ammunition boxes, officers hatboxes, &c, &c.
Obtain hardware store paint card for Benjamin Moore, book2,#796 and mix to match

Andy

GGaskill · « **Reply #16 on:** July 27, 2007, 01:26:50 PM »

Below is the Benjamin Moore webpage for color number, Click for a better image.

Don Krag · « **Reply #17 on:** July 27, 2007, 06:05:52 PM »

Quote from: GGaskill on July 20, 2007, 06:48:42 PM

I am guessing that indigo, which was common in India, was the blue pigment, but it's not clear that indigo is a suitable paint pigment versus cloth dye.

I found plenty of references to paintings using woad based blue paints. My wife's been wanting to grow some woad for some medieval dye projects...I might have to hijack a couple plants!

Those fort McHenry and Valley Forge pieces are really nice looking!

Double D · « **Reply #18 on:** July 27, 2007, 06:14:35 PM »

Quote from: rifleshooter2 on July 27, 2007, 10:33:22 AM

OK I found this out. This was written by Mark Hilliard who is with the Marines on the Constitution. He is connected with several museums, etc. The whole article is about canteens but states it is to recreate light blue paint for "canteens, knapsacks,ORDINANCE CARRIAGES, ammunition boxes, officers hatboxes, &c, &c.
Obtain hardware store paint card for Benjamin Moore, book2,#796 and mix to match

Andy

I think Tim or I are going to have to figure out how to add this to the reference section. That's Tim's baby, he can do it. Thr OD formulas probably should go in there also

By way did the Marine have a similar tip for the Red?

rifleshooter2 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 28, 2007, 01:31:23 AM »

I think Tim or I are going to have to figure out how to add this to the reference section. That's Tim's baby, he can do it. Thr OD formulas probably should go in there also

By way did the Marine have a similar tip for the Red?

[/quote]

I didn't ask about the red but I'll see what I can find out.

Andy