Aiming ships guns????

[Will Bison]

Given a typical gun truck with quoin and four small wheels. I can understand how some crude elevation can be set with the quoin. How does one achieve any accuracy with the ship rolling and pitching? Also the target ship is rising and falling with the swells. One other thing is the control of azimuth, how does that work?

All of this seems quite a chore and given more to luck than precise gun laying.

Will (Who is landlocked) Bison

[Cat Whisperer]

Naval targets are vertical (the side of the ship) changes in elevation make MUCH less difference shooting at a vertical target compared to a target on the ground (troop formation) which is essentially horizontal.

But that doesn't answer your question.

[seacoastartillery]

Will,    I had a lot of free time to read while I was in the Navy (when I wasn't chipping paint).  I don't like fiction so I read mostly history about the world's navies and I really like the 1700s and 1800s so what i remember about gunnery in those days was that mainly there were no formal practices for aiming and even firing the guns.  It was up to each Captain to specify his own way of doing those things.  I don't remember that I found much about US Naval Gunnery but that the British Captains generally had their gun crews fire as the engaged side of the ship rolled down to the lowest point of the waves trough.  They believed that this practice allowed a better chance for hits on the enemy ship or if you missed you would probably get a skip off the water and then into the enemy.  Azimuth or left and right deflection was not even considered as firing by command was the usual way.  "Fire as your guns bear" was the most cmmon and also volley fire if the ships were very close.

I think the French liked firing at the apogee of the roll because they were usually after the masts and rigging and didn't want to sink the ship because of the "Prize" and money aspect.  If you are really interested I would get a good book covering this subject.  Mt memory is not perfect after all these years!  Best wishes from a former ASROC Gunners Mate, US Navy.

Mike

[Max Caliber]

Will, Since fighting ships were floating forts without as much leeway for aiming their guns as guns in a land fort were, the guns were generally elevated to the point where the shot was intended to go ( the French shot for the rigging and the British and Americans shot at the hull ) then the ship was maneuvered to the most advantageous point to cause the most damage and the guns fired as quickly as possible. Apparently it was the amount of shot that could be delivered on the target that was more important than accurate aim. The British were said to be able to get off three shots to the enemies two - Something the Americans became quiet good at also. A good example of the amount of shot expended in a sea battle is in the fight between the U.S.frigate Constellation and the French 54 gun frigate La Vengeance in the West Indies in February of 1800. The Constellation, which had a broadside of 372 pounds of metal caught up with the La Vengeance which carried a broadside of 559 pounds and in a long running battle the La Vengeance discharged 742 rounds to the Constellations 1229 rounds from fewer guns. The La vengeance was shot to pieces but was able to escape the Constellation which was also badly damaged. The La Vengeance's Captain ran his ship onto the beach at Curacao. I recommend the recent book, The Six Frigates, by Ian W. Toll, Which is about the founding of the U.S. Navy and has some interesting info on fighting ships.
Max

[Will Bison]

Tim, Mike and Max;

Thanks for your replies, they explain a great deal about the subject. I suspected that the laying of ships guns would have to be a less than scientific exercise. "Fire as your guns bear" would seem to summarize the operation.

Mike,

I was at Hickam Field in the early 60's and had a number of Navy friends at Pearl. The Navy was installing the ASROC on a couple of DE's, Vance and Radford as I recall. They were also testing the DASH (an unmanned helicopter that carried two Mk 48 torpedoes as memory serves). One of my friends called and said "Hey Bill, walk over to the DD docks this afternoon, the contractors are 'gonna crash a DASH". Well they sure did, the thing had counter rotating blades and they all got tied up in a knot just clear of the fantail. It was a spectacular affair with smoke, flame and loud noise. Too much fun.

Bill

[Rickk]

here is a link to an interesting story that describes loading, aiming, and firing a gun on a ship

http://www.sea-thieves.com/education_pages/seathieves_edu_crew-ranking_gunner.htm

[lance]

thanks Rickk, that is a neat link.

[Tropico]

     Fire at will        

[Cat Whisperer]

What did Will do that warrants his being fired upon?

[Tropico]

I meant it in the sense of take your best shot I believe was more the order of the day for aiming your cannon. I did not mean anything directed at Will. I believe it was left to individual gun captains to hit their target best they coukl ., I remember watching the practice drills in Master and Commander.,that seems plausible to me (as in they practiced speed.,  however timing I believe was a guess .

[Cat Whisperer]

 I'm suspecting a conspiracy against Will. 

Anyone who's been in the Army has heard a Range Officer give the command, "Fire at Will!"

It's been a tradition for so long I don't think it'll ever stop!

[Div Arty]

    Will may be landlocked, but he still has to contend with high desert heat waves.  And now you say someone is fireing at him.

[Smoke n oak]

I think Tropico is right. From what I have read it was up to the gun captains of each gun. And yes I to love Master and Commander, as well as Patric O Brians books. 

[Will Bison]

Tropico 'splains it bestus, movin pitchures I can understand.

[Double D]

I think Tropico is right. From what I have read it was up to the gun captains of each gun. And yes I to love Master and Commander, as well as Patric O Brians books. 

I can't bring myself to read 21!

[Smoke n oak]

Yes, I've read four and now I'm reading the classic Two Years Before the Mast. Not a Man o War but a good account of the life of a sailor. They get chased by pirates but that's it so fare.    have you all watched Yellow Beard the Pirate. It's a funny