Belted magnum vs non-belted cartridges

[powderman]

BEEMANBEME. My point was that a dead groundhog doesn't know what killed him, it's just as dead as it would be with my 308 or 22 hornet, magnum didn't enter the equation. My last deer was killed with a 3030 and a cast bullet. I took a running away shot, the bullet went in a ham, traveled the length of the body and destroyed the heart, didn't need a magnum for penetration there. I would not have tried that shot with a jcktd bullet. For you guys that like, or feel you need a magnum, I say thats great, enjoy, personally I don't want, or need one. I never meant to infer that folks who use magnums aren't good shots, or sportsmen, and if anyone felt that way I apologize, because that was not my intent. POWDERMAN. 

[unspellable]

Neck sizing is OK if you are loading only for one rifle.  For more than one rifle you will probably need to full length re-size.  The extra step with the trick die is not essential, but it will produce better results and longer case life.  The one single trick die works for most belted cartridges since it works in the head area and almost all of them are based on the 375 H&H.

And yes, a 375 H&H can be loaded down to a true rabbit load.  Hard cast 270 grain bullet at 1300 fps with good accuracy.  It will make a neat hole in a rabbit.

[beemanbeme]

Powderman, we've already had one thread shut down about folks that shoot unwounded animals in the butt so I won't go there but I am curious.  Why would you have tried the THS on the deer with a cast bullet but you say you wouldn't have tried it with a jacketed bullet?  I've never done any hunting/shooting with cast bullets.

By the way, you apparently missed my post about using a .260 and .300 Savage here in Wild and Wonderful West Virginia. (with core lokt bullets)

Sorry about jackin' this thread

[Dee]

beemanbeme, I too have shot hundreds of cast bullets both in pistol and rifle. I have a 170 grain mold with a gas check for my 3030 and a hard cast will almost always out penetrate a jacketed. It does not expand, and even on bone usually only slightly deforms, but will break the bone it hits. It kills in a slightly different manner than an expanding jacketed and exactly like a full metal jacket, only usually cheaper, and more enjoyable as you actually made the bullet you hunted with.
Another interesting side effect is, a 170 grain jacketed can be loaded to about 2200fps, in a 3030, whereas a hardcast with a gas check of the same weight can be loaded up to 2400fps safely, which puts it in the same velocity range as the 150 grain jacketed. Making a quartering shot that powderman described STILL allows for good penetration with such a bullet, and getting to the vitals.

[powderman]

BEEMANBEME. Dee pretty well explained it. A jacketed bullet probably would  not penetrate that far, I knew my bullet would, and I needed the meat. I use the LEE 170 gr FP with 26 gr of RX7. Dee is right about comparing penetration to a fmj, but the FP has a much greater shock effect and is superiour to a fmj in that respect. I shoot at a plate sized hanging 1/4 in steel target accross the hollow, about 125-130 yds. I mostly use it for my 22 pistol but tried the 3030 one day just for fun. Couldn't hurt it at that distance with an ol lead WW bullet, right??? 3 out of 4 hits went all the way through, and the 4th didn't lack much of doing so. I'm afraid to try a smilie cause when I did with my last letter my letter disappeared, TWICE. POWDERMAN.