Reduced Load Ammuntion Question(s)

[Francis]

I have a few single shot weapons. I like the H&R Handi style weapons. I use my Ultra Slug gun for deer here in Tn. I have a 45/70 also. I an going to let my son use the little 45/70 for deer. I shoot different ammuntion in the 45/70. Thier are "cowboy" loads which are 450 gr. lead round nose bullets. They only have 1200 fps out the muzzle. I have had an ongoing discussion with a friend here at work. He says they are not strong enough loads to shoot deer. (He prefers the Hornadays 325 gr.at a higher velocity.) In years gone by, they killed buffalo with a 45 cal bullet and 70 grains of black powder.
Opinion time, Are the 45/70 cowboy rounds good enough? Keep in mind that they are sighted in to 100 yards, and longer shots would not be attempted.
The cowboy loads ar 1/2 the price of the Hornadays, so that means more range time before hand.
I say they are more than enough round for deer hunting.
Any real opinions/experiences are appreciated. Thanks.

Note: If anyone sees this on tndeer.com, I am just trying to get as many opinions as possible.

[Chuck White]

I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work.

It should work well within your self-imposed limitations (100 yards).

It's not a lot different than the old side-lock 44 & 45 cal muzzle loaders.

[quickdtoo]

Yup, the 405gr should work just fine, the 300gr or 405gr Remingtons will work also, if it's a wood stocked Handi, you might want to add a Limbsaver recoil pad for your son if he's a young fella.  And I think your friend needs a little history lesson!! 

Tim

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

http://www.chuckhawks.com/45-70Govt.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45-70

As is usual with military ammunitions, the .45-70 was an immediate hit among sportsmen as well, and the .45-70 has survived for one and a third centuries. Today, the traditional 405 grain (26.2 g) load is considered adequate for any North American big game within its range limitations, including the great bears, and it does not destroy edible meat on smaller animals such as deer due to the bullet's low velocity. It is very good for big game hunting in brush or heavy timber where the range is usually short.

[LEO]

Francis, don't you know Cowboy loads are for shooting Cowboys, what you need is Deer loads.  Just kidding, with the stipulations you set forth, the 450 grain bullet at 1200 FPS would be plenty adequate for deer.  Just make sure that there is plenty of range time so the proper aiming point is learned from point blank to 100 yards as obviously the trajectory of these loads will be different than the faster loads.  I don't know where people have gotten the idea that deer have gotten so much harder to kill over the past 100 years.  If you or your son put that bullet in the right place you had better have a gutting knife and drag rope handy.  Good hunting

[xhare]

The old Remington 400 grain load is only going about 1300 fps out of a Handi barrel.  Some would say that is too weak to hunt with.  But those same people would sit in awe after firing a 44 mag revolver shooting a 300 grain bullet (which is a max or near max load).   The reason for that in my opinion is that one load is pretty sedate to shoot, thel other produces a lot of flash, bang, and recoil.  The 44mag revolver load will really let the shooter know he has shot something.   

So, even the lightest trapdoor loads are more powerful than the 44 magnum handgun can produce, and do it at nearly half the pressure too. 

Yet one more reason so many hunters love the 45-70.

[tanoose]

A well constructed 450 grain bullet at 1200 fps will put down the biggest bear you'll ever see, but i guess your 450 is soft lead . So the only problem i see for deer is if you miss. Good luck have fun Tanoose

[flintlock]

Well...For about 15 years my deer hunting load was 70grs FFF under a .440 ball (128 grs)...

When I moved up to a .54 caliber flintlock, I went to 80grs FFF and a .530 ball (224 grs)...

With you shooting a 450 grain conical, your bullet retains much more energy down range than my round ball will....
And you are throwing twice the weight of a .530 ball...I've killed 25 or so with the .45,
tack on another 20 with the .54...

Heck, from my technology to yours is about 100 years....You have plenty of energy for deer...