Author Topic: 44 Magnum 250 grain Partition (Read 1926 times)

rimfire · « **on:** August 06, 2007, 10:58:16 AM »

Nosler technician tells me that this bullet will penetrate an Elk through the shoulders with no problem, and I found an article on line that listed this bullet as penetrating significantly more than other jacketed bullets, including the 270 Gold Dot and 300 XTP, not to mention any other light jacketed.

I like shooting jacketed bullets when I can and with this penetration...anyone with any experience with this bullet?

Please note that the article I read said that it shed its nose in front of Partition very quickly, but then just kept penetrating. I am hopeful I could shoot this bullet and the sight settings would be very similar to the 240 XTP I shoot most often.

They are expensive!

Rimfire

jhalcott · « **Reply #1 on:** August 06, 2007, 04:51:43 PM »

rimfire it is best to shoot a few rounds to be certain where they are going to hit. Yes practice with what ever is on sale,and practice often. Just make sure of the ammo BEFORE you are in the stand!

rimfire · « **Reply #2 on:** August 07, 2007, 03:54:39 AM »

I would definitely not hunt with the ammo without shooting it extensively. I am just hopeful I could get this bullet to shoot similarly to the XTPs with only minor sight adjustment. I use the XTPs on Whitetail.

No one has any experience with this bullet?

Rimfire

Drilling Man · « **Reply #3 on:** August 07, 2007, 07:41:31 AM »

I've seen several reports on line of 250 NP's being used on deer out of 44 mag. rifles and 444 Marlins, with all of users very happy with the results...

After seeing those reports i also bought some 250 NP's to try, but so far i haven't put together any loads to try them....

DM

swampthing · « **Reply #4 on:** August 07, 2007, 11:13:38 AM »

A good hardcast will do the same and then some. A whole lot cheaper too. www.montanabulletworks.com I like the 280's in my .44's @ 1200fps, with the gas check, accurate beyond expectations. Have them sized to fit tightly through the cylinders. Bore has to be clean of all jacket fouling if you decide to give'em a shot.
Whacthed too many jackets fall apart on so called "premium" bullets, including noslers.

fatercat · « **Reply #5 on:** August 07, 2007, 11:43:23 AM »

swampthing, just where have you seen a nosler partition fail? i shot a elk at 25 feet and the front blew off, but the rest of the bullet was intact. a 7mm mag loaded to max. i recovered the bullet beside his ear on the off side.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #6 on:** August 07, 2007, 12:23:09 PM »

Quote

Whacthed too many jackets fall apart on so called "premium" bullets, including noslers.

Really? Do you mean the nose blew off??? Like it's designed to do??? The nose blowing off at the partition with the rest of the bullet driveing in deep is what makes this bullet heads above all others! No other bullet has such a wide rage of velocities that it will perform so well at!

In my 25 year hunting hunting career in Alaska, i shots all kinds of animals from moose and brown bears on down, and i've never had even one NP fail to work as advertised! I've literally fired hundreds of NP's over the years.

To this day i prefer NP's for my big game hunting to all other bullets in my rifles.

In my 44 handguns, i use hard cast 250 grain bullets that i cast myself, and i have harvested quite a few animials with them from Moose on down, but i'd still like to work up a load using NP's and give them a try, as then i could use that same ammo in my rifle too...

DM

fatercat · « **Reply #7 on:** August 07, 2007, 02:27:15 PM »

yes, that is exactly what i mean! thanks DM

swampthing · « **Reply #8 on:** August 07, 2007, 03:37:17 PM »

Back when I was in to testing bullets I've noticed that some of the Noslers were spiting their "rear" core, a few times I would only find a U shaped jacket with no lead left in, once I saw these I never spent the money on them again.
Don't get me wrong they will still kill animals but why spend all that extra money on something that fails? That's what they call "Premium?" To each their own I guess. Once I tried hardcast lead I never bothered with jacketed again.
I will say that honady interbonds are pretty tough though, as they should be for the price they're getting for them.

fatercat · « **Reply #9 on:** August 07, 2007, 05:17:15 PM »

when were you testing bullits? were you testing nosler partitions? what were you testing them in? were they pistol or rifle bullets. what cal. and what weight. what speed? you need to answer the questions or your post has no merit.

Hook686 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 13, 2007, 11:00:48 PM »

WOW ! How heavy I'm thinking. Swampthing's personal experience has more merit to me than someone declaring a personal experience as having 'no merit'. Maybe folks can ease up a bit and simply accept a personal story for what it is. I've never had a full jacket separation with a 250 grain Nosler Partition, but then I only loaded them with 10.8 grains of Unique. I personally do not think swampthing needs to give you all that data you asked for, for his personal story to have merit. Geesh I'm not giving you the chronograph details for my 10.8 Unique loadings, does this mean my sharing my experience loading 10.8 grains of Unique, with no full jacket separation has no merit ? ... and yeah, I've tested bullets, powders, primers, O.A.L. and even brass in my life time, so I can accept that maybe swampthing tested some bullets, as he says.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #11 on:** August 14, 2007, 03:07:10 AM »

Quote

when were you testing bullits? were you testing nosler partitions? what were you testing them in? were they pistol or rifle bullets. what cal. and what weight. what speed? you need to answer the questions or your post has no merit.

I'd like to know the answers to those questions too.... NOT because they have no merit, but because i use to design and mfg. bullets, and i'd like to AT LEAST see if what he's saying even pertains to this thread.

If he didn't test the bullets asked about, and test them in something that pertains to this thread, then his comments doesn't help the origional poster much, does it??

I've tested thousands of bullets, yes even cast bullets, but i'm not going to sit here and tell everyone "every test" would give meaning to the origional question here...

DM

fatercat · « **Reply #12 on:** August 14, 2007, 09:59:19 AM »

ok, maybe a little strong. i live on east coast and hunt out west. it cost alot of money for plane tickets, hunting lic., guides. all depends on the bullet that you use. i have shot elk, mule deer, white tails, hogs. and never had one fail. on the deer the front quarter on the hit side was not fit to eat. i have only recovered the bullet on elk. thats why i questioned swampthing post. i want to use the best, and i think nosler's partitions are the best.

dougk · « **Reply #13 on:** August 15, 2007, 10:57:42 AM »

Living in Texas, where bigger is better

I prefer a 320gr WFN (Wide Flat Nose) @1200fps from Reeds Ammo.

Doug

Racer X · « **Reply #14 on:** August 16, 2007, 06:36:35 AM »

Alright, let me ask another related question. Who thinks they are worth almost a buck each. Midway sells them at $43 a box of 50. Load development will get expensive. For the same money, you can buy 200 Cast Performance bullets.

swampthing · « **Reply #15 on:** August 16, 2007, 08:53:10 AM »

Too strong? don't be silly, I just realized this thread was still going on, sorry for the delay.
I'll keep this short to stay on topic.
My tests comprised of sand, loam, wet newsprint, and also wet newsprint with marrow bones in it. Bullets were .308" cal. 165g Nosler Partitions at a measly 2300fps muzzle velocity, targets were set at 50yds, that bullet would spit rear cores occasionally. Supposedly this bullet is cleared for use in a 300mag, it's a shame that my "lowly" .309 JDJ would tear them up. If this is what they call premium I'd like to show them a good hardcast, this to open "their" eyes to real penetration/performance. I've also had similar results with XTP's in .44cal/300g, of course only having one core, they would spit the core occasionally. This was at a muzzle velocity of 1400fps.
I have no reason to believe that their "handgun" bullets are any tougher than their rifle bullets, and why would they be, rifle bullets are designed for rifle velocities just like handgun bullets are designed for handgun velocities.
For nearly a dollar a shot, {a bullet}, it better take an elks shoulders out! LBT Hardcasts will outperform them by a large margin and you will probably not recover one for "test/anylisis" purposes.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #16 on:** August 17, 2007, 04:33:23 AM »

Quote

My tests comprised of sand, loam, wet newsprint, and also wet newsprint with marrow bones in it. Bullets were .308" cal. 165g Nosler Partitions at a measly 2300fps muzzle velocity, targets were set at 50yds, that bullet would spit rear cores occasionally.

I have shot too many 165np's to count, out of 30-06's and 300 Win. Mags, and i've NEVER had one "spit" the "rear" core... Yes, the nose blows off, as it's supose to, but in every case the core stays intact, and they are an EXCELENT game bullet.

"If" what you say is true, i'd say your bullets were tumbling.... I've fired waaaaaaay to many of them to know that bullet will work in game going a lot faster than you say you were pushing them.

Anyway, that's been my experience with them...

DM

swampthing · « **Reply #17 on:** August 17, 2007, 05:12:30 AM »

I hear you. I'm going across the grain on this one. They are a good concept with a mostly unquestionable, and lengthy performance history, but I hold a bullet that cost nearly a dollar a piece to a much higher standard than that. ie: "occasionally" spitting cores, loosing the front half/shedding excessive weight. Yeah the bullet will penetrate and harvest game but it has been my experience that I was not getting what I paid for. Too many variables that can make a hunt go wrong, I do not choose to have a questionable "bullet!" be one of them.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #18 on:** August 17, 2007, 11:04:42 AM »

Quote from: swampthing on August 17, 2007, 05:12:30 AM

I hear you. I'm going across the grain on this one. They are a good concept with a mostly unquestionable, and lengthy performance history, but I hold a bullet that cost nearly a dollar a piece to a much higher standard than that. ie: "occasionally" spitting cores, loosing the front half/shedding excessive weight. Yeah the bullet will penetrate and harvest game but it has been my experience that I was not getting what I paid for. Too many variables that can make a hunt go wrong, I do not choose to have a questionable "bullet!" be one of them.

I'm NOT saying your bullets didn't act like you say they did, but you will have to go some to have harvested more big game than i have, especially durning the 25 years i lived in Alaska, and that includes dangerous game, as in brown bears.

I can say, i've never seen a NP fail or work as Nosler says they will on any any game animial i've ever harvested. I did have plenty of others fail, like Granslams, gamekings, innerlocks ect....

Nosler NP's are made to blow the nose off with the rear section driving in deep, and that's "exactly" what they do, and it's also exactly what i prefer a big game bullet to do!

BTW, i shot a black tail deer one time with my .240 Wby. loaded with a 85NP loaded to over "chorographed" 3,800fps. The deer was about 30 feet away, and the shot was a quartering away shot. Even with a screaming high impact velocity, the 85NP "still" shot completely through the deer, breaking the off shoulder!

Anyway, i'm glad you found some bullets that your happy with...

DM

swampthing · « **Reply #19 on:** August 17, 2007, 02:12:10 PM »

I doubt that DrillingMan, Sir. Consider yourself lucky that the bullets never let you down, yet. Lets hope your next 25yrs are as trouble free as well.
3800fps. .240W, nice laser. By the time that bullet reached the off shoulder it was going a lot slower than 3800fps. What would be left of that bullet if it was to hit that shoulder first, then have to penetrate the vitals? My guess is a lot les then 85g's.
I wonder why they decided to leave the back of the bullet open like that. Makes them look lazy to me.
Oh well, good luck and enjoy.
Swampthing

Drilling Man · « **Reply #20 on:** August 17, 2007, 03:19:56 PM »

Quote

3800fps. .240W, nice laser. By the time that bullet reached the off shoulder it was going a lot slower than 3800fps.

I think you better "re-read" my last post, i never said the impact V was 3,800fps....

All over the net, folks tell of the great results they get from NP's, so my "good luck" is far from unique...

BTW, that 85NP broke a rib going in too, so i'd say it did a pretty good job... And "no" i sure don't think the 240 Wby or any of the 6mm's are an end-all-do-all round!

DM

dougk · « **Reply #21 on:** August 17, 2007, 04:37:28 PM »

I am finding this discussion about the performance of a Partition bullet very interesting.

We all have differing opinions about the bullets performance I find it most useful and enlightening when specific real world examples about the bullets performance are used. Does any one have any examples of the bullet failing during a hunting situation?

Thanks
Doug

swampthing · « **Reply #22 on:** August 18, 2007, 10:10:21 AM »

Like I said, "By the time that bullet reached the off shoulder.... etc.... etc..." 30feet away? So whats that, a 100fps less than M.V.
Maybe you ought to do some rereading. Or better yet, try putting some more words in my mouth and make us both look like a couple of scmoes, {technical term for meatball}.
Rimfire,
Don't mind me, like I put before, that has been my experience with NP's.

Graybeard · « **Reply #23 on:** August 18, 2007, 10:33:25 AM »

This thread is beginning to drift badly. The question asked is in regard to one specific bullet not the entire line of partition bullets from Nosler. Commentary in regard rifle bullets while interesting is of no real value in responding to the question asked.

I hold the Nosler PT in very high regard. I don't feel it necessary for all my hunting as I use only standard ie., non magnum chamberings in rifles and therefore do not stress my bullets like those who use magnums do. I also prefer heavy for caliber as opposed to light for caliber bullets for most all my hunting uses.

I've never really experienced what I'd classify as a bullet failure on any game animal I've taken to date in over 40 years of big game hunting. I have had to jacket separations both of which appeared to happen just as the bullet stopped forward motion since jacket and core were pretty much together but not attached. One was a Remington 140 grain 7mm Core-loct and the other a 300 grain .429 Hornady XTP. Both killed the game shot (large whitetail buck and hog) quite effectively.

I also like the Nosler PT handgun bullets but find them a tad expensive for what I'd use them on. I could again be perfectly happy with them for any use I'd put a jacketed handgun bullet to and if they were 300 grains in .429" and perhaps 325 grains or more in .452" I'd even trust them for larger game which now I'd only use a cast bullet for. But for my personal use even more standard construction JHPs and JSPs do fine on deer size game and when I move to larger and/or tougher game like the elk mentioned I am more prone to trust a cast bullet.

So back to the original post of this thread no I've no experience with that bullet on elk and quite honestly doubt I'd personally chose it for that use. If it were a 300 grain I would but not as a 250 just my own personal preference. I would chose a cast bullet with wide meplat of at least 300 grains personally. Practice with what you wish for most of your shooting but prior to the hunt get the gun sighted to the load you'll use and be sure you know what it will do at all ranges you feel comfortable shooting at game with it.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #24 on:** August 18, 2007, 11:54:48 AM »

Quote

This thread is beginning to drift badly. The question asked is in regard to one specific bullet not the entire line of partition bullets from Nosler.

I agree, and stated early on that i use cast bullets in my revolvers, but one good reason to give those 250NP's a try is so i could use the same loaded ammo in my 44 auto rifle... I won't use any cast bullets in it, and from what i've read from other users, the 250NP works quite well on big game...

John Nosler designed one of the greatest game bullets of all time, and i bet the 44's will work well too...

DM

300winman · « **Reply #25 on:** August 25, 2007, 11:47:38 PM »

I used to shoot the 44 mag 250 NP in both my Taurus RB and Ruger Deerfield. I never shot any deer, but shot them into chopped wood. In the pistol, the 250 NP, held together. But when shot from the ruger deerfield at higher velocities, although good penetration,the jacket would separate. My personal findings were that the 270 GD held together better at rifle velocities. I don't know about the 250 NP out-penetrating the 270 GD, I found the other way around. But all is mute seens how I tested on wood and not on actual game, just my opinion.

Personally, if a bullet does its job, who cares what it looks like afterwards. As long as it got to the vitals, or passed through, all is good!!!! And with Partitions track record as mentioned, who can disagree with its performance? Wood, paper, ballistic gel, don't tell that story. Any of the above bullets mentioned will do the job their designed for. All about personal preference and what shoots most accurately for you.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #26 on:** August 26, 2007, 12:39:45 AM »

heres my take on it for what its worth. I try to only post on a subject i know but ive never shot even one of these bullets so i actually have no experience but bare with me. A handgun bullet is different then a rifle bullet and what works in a rilfle doesnt nessisarily work well in a handgun. Ive used np in rilfes and have allways thought they were a great bullet but i dont think id use them in a handgun. Why? Because a handgun relys more on penetratration to do its job then a rifle bullet. If you take a 250 grain 44 bullet and shoot it an speeds high enough to blow the nose off your penetration is going to suffer drasticaly. Now this may not be a big deal to a deer hunter as they dont take much penetrating. But when the game gets bigger I like greaybeard would want at least a 300 grain bullet and id want it to hold together. We done enough penetration testing to know a few things. ONE is that NO jacketed bullet does well. THe heavies do slightly better then the lighter ones but once then deform in anyway penetration slows drasticaly. If you take a 250 grain bullet and blow 50 grains off of it and slow in down when it mushrooms your penetration will be pretty dismal. We tested premium handgun bullets like hawks and gold dots and they dont do one iota better then the cheap ones when it comes to penetration. Bottom line is once a bullet deforms in any way it does poorly. Nosler can state till there blue in the face that that 250 will blow through an elk but Id bet them a dollar against my entire gun collection that if i shot 10 of them through both shoulders that id doubt if one of those bullet gave complete penetration. Ive watched a 600 lb red stag stop a 450 lfn out of a 50 alaskan on the far side skin after breaking both shoulders. Why? because the bullet was shot to damed fast. We were loading it at about 2000 fps and that was just to fast for the alloy we were using and the nose rivited slightly on the bullet. Like i said it doesnt take much. Now id about be if that same bullet using the same alloy would have been shot at 1500 fps it would have been a differnt story. Weve done a pile of penetration testing. We use bufflalo or cow bones followed by wet print. Now this isnt scientific but the results weve gotten have come about as close to the results weve gotten on big game as any media weve tried and ive yet to see any jacketed handgun bullet make it more the 18 inch after it hit the bone. Alot of them dont even clear the bone. Im not going to be so arogant as to say that jacketed bullet wont work on deer. About any bullet in any caliber will kill deer. But if ive got a once in a lifetime hunt for something bigger then deer with a handgun im here to tell you that gun will be loaded with hardcast bullets. Not just any cast bullet and load, one that ive put some thought into. I HAVE seen jacketed bullet fail. Both in penetration tests and on game even as small as black bear and hogs. I have NEVER seen any animal properly hit with a cast bullet that didnt die very soon. It may not drop them in there tracks but if you think any jacketed bullet will do this every time ive got a bridge to sell you!

sawfish · « **Reply #27 on:** August 30, 2007, 10:18:57 AM »

I have shot a few critters with the .44 Cal 240 NP, and a few with its larger Cousin in the .454 Casull. Based on that experience, IMHO these bullets are too tough for most deer sized game. All of the bullets on deer gave complete penetration. I shot one deer square through the heart, and there was a .44 cal size hole going in, and a .44 cal size exit hole. I had an excellent blood trail to follow, but the NP did nothing on deer that a hard cast would not do. I prefer the old cheap RP 240 JHP in the .44 Magnum, which has been my go to deer bullet in this caliber for over 35 years. Good weight retention, reliable expansion, meat in the freezer. Most Whitetails either drop on the spot with a good hit, or travel less than 50 yards.

I also had occasion to kill a decent size (400 lb) black bear with the PHG bullet. The bullet went in behind the bears left shoulder, and angled through the bear lodging under the skin in front of the off shoulder. I thought this was impressive penetration on a very tough animal. If you have ever butchered a bear, you know what I mean. It is a three knife job! The bullet retained 87% of its total weight, and I have no doubt that it would fully penetrate an elk under the right circumstances. I have not seen the nose blown off of a PHG bullet, but I suppose that it could happen. My understanding of the PHG design is that unlike the rifle version, the nose is not designed to blow off at HG velocities. Those that I have recovered, or have seen that others recovered were pretty much intact and exhibited classic mushroom expansion. I have also shot some of the Platinum Points in this caliber, and have been unable to tell much difference in the performance of the two. They even shoot fairly close to the same point of impact in my guns.

Without intending to flame anyone up, with the cost of hunting, travel, licenses, guns, etc., is $1.00 a bullet really that big of a deal? You can get three for about the same as a gallon of gasoline.