Military Round Capabilities

[Francis]

Some rifles can handle military rounds (EG: my 40 year old AR-15 can shoot 223's both civilian and military). Handi 45/70's can handle the higher "Buffalo Bore" rounds that some rifles can't. Can all Handi's handle thier mlitary higer pressure counterpart rounds? (Such as the 308 vs 7.62) Thanks.

[stimpylu32]

Francis

Nope , H&R even says right in their paperwork that comes with their rifles , DO NOT USE Mil Spec ammo .

There are more than just pressure diffrences with mil. ammo too .

stimpy

[greg916]

Francis, there are chamber differences in rifles chambered for the 5.56 and 7.62 NATO, vs. .223 and .308, notably in the leade. The NATO rounds are also loaded to higher pressure levels than their civilian counterparts.

[bluebayou]

7.62 NATO is loaded to a LOWER pressure than the 308 Winchester.  Believe it or not. 
http://www.thegunzone.com/30cal.html

5.56 NATO is loaded higher than commerical 223 and has a different leade. 
http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm#diff

I fired NATO 147gr surplus repeatedly in my 308, NEF says not to do it.  One question would be, "Is it truly NATO spec ammo?"  South African ammo is high quality NATO spec even though SA is not part of NATO.  Malaysian or whatever Asian country's surplus ammo is just that:  surplus ammo.  You aren't necessarily getting NATO spec ammo, just military surplus ammo. 

[Mac11700]

There have always been concerns for some of the older surplus ammunition such as that as sold by CBC a few years ago making it's way into the civilian market...There was at a time after the end of the cold war..where there was a lot of cheap and  possible dangerous counterfeit "spec'd" ammo coming out...I remember well some of the corrosive ammo that hit the market then...and some of the reports about them...Now a days..I don't see or here much about it in 308...but there is tons of shoddy 223 ammo available...

Be that as it may...NEF clearly states not to use it in their rifles...and while some may have had a fair bit of luck with it...the majority of those that do try it see right away that it isn't worth the effort...and so they heed good advice from the company...I do see this becoming more of an issue now...especially in light of all of the commercial ammunition prices going thru the roof...While some of the current Nato countries may hold their spec's closer...there has been quite a difference over the past 30 years coming from all of them...not to mention some of the steel cored bullets that made their way on to the civilian market from the Asian counterfeiters...so..Bottom Line...NEF says don't use it in a Handi...and that is what is recommended here...You guys can read all you want from any Internet site....If you take your chances with the stuff...be prepared to live with the consequences...You will have nobody to blame but yourself if you or your rifle gets hurt...If you just want to argue the fact the Handi's can safely use NATO ammo...don't...Call the company and convince them that it can...and offer what proof you have that it is indeed safe to shoot...maybe they will change their printed warnings..

Mac

[norman]

 Bottom Line...NEF says don't use it in a Handi...and that is what is recommended here...You guys can read all you want from any Internet site....If you take your chances with the stuff...be prepared to live with the consequences...You will have nobody to blame but yourself if you or your rifle gets hurt...If you just want to argue the fact the Handi's can safely use NATO ammo...don't...Call the company and convince them that it can...and offer what proof you have that it is indeed safe to shoot...maybe they will change their printed warnings..

Mac

O.K.  Mac, now my question is...if I shoot the military ammo in my ak .223 and keep the case, remove the primer crimp an all that, do I now have a .223 case or a 5.56?  I was thinking about getting a .223 bbl because I have a bunch of L.C and W.C.C cases and not as many, but acceptable, commercial cases. Basicly, Can I use once-fired millitary cases or is there a differance I have overlooked?
Thanks

Norman

[Mac11700]

 Bottom Line...NEF says don't use it in a Handi...and that is what is recommended here...You guys can read all you want from any Internet site....If you take your chances with the stuff...be prepared to live with the consequences...You will have nobody to blame but yourself if you or your rifle gets hurt...If you just want to argue the fact the Handi's can safely use NATO ammo...don't...Call the company and convince them that it can...and offer what proof you have that it is indeed safe to shoot...maybe they will change their printed warnings..

Mac

O.K.  Mac, now my question is...if I shoot the military ammo in my ak .223 and keep the case, remove the primer crimp an all that, do I now have a .223 case or a 5.56?  I was thinking about getting a .223 bbl because I have a bunch of L.C and W.C.C cases and not as many, but acceptable, commercial cases. Basicly, Can I use once-fired millitary cases or is there a differance I have overlooked?
Thanks

Norman

First off...I have no clue as to how your AK 223 is chambered...so as to what you will wind up with is a good question...Secondly...if you are a reloader..then you know full well what the advise of every reloading manual has to say about using military brass and how you are supposed to reduce the powder charges...I don't reuse military brass that is Berdan primed..not when Boxer primed brass is available including those from Lake City for the 223...If you are going to reuse it...then follow what any of the reloading manuals tell you... Personally...it isn't worth my time to try to convert it over...If you were shooting a military rifle in an odd caliber...where you can't readily get other type brass...it would be one thing...but with as much brass that is available for it...it doesn't make sense for me to go that route...and if I did just want to reload military brass...there are companies that have already prepped the cases and sell in bulk..

Mac

[norman]

Thanks Mac.  The military cases I am using already have the primer crimp removed, and yes I do know about using the lower amount of powder.  I have some Data 2200 powder that works great in the AK and will have to work up a load when I get the Handi barrel.  Aw, the joy of reloading.  Can make it a squirrel gun or big black bear killer     Mostly I will be after the evil wild boar.     Just love pork chops, sausage and BBQ spare ribs   Thanks for the reply, and will probably leave the mil brass for the AK and use the commercial cases for the handi.  Thanks again.
Norman

[Mac11700]

Your Welcome

Mac