j.p sauer and sohn info

[benjaminw7528]

 does anyone have any info on these pistols and what is the strongest factory load you can shoot in it

[benjaminw7528]

 sorry it's a 44 mag

[John Traveler]

The German firm of J.P. Sauer and Sohn manufactured these single action revolvers for a Los Angeles, California importer during the late 1960's thru late 1970's.  They were chambered in .22 LR, .357 magnum, .44 magnum, and .45 colt and were cosmetically similar to the much more expensive Colt single action.  A larger cylinder and frame-mounted firing pin were used to permit .44 magnum chambering (which Colt did not offer).  They came in versions with nickle-plated finish, blued w/brass grip frame, and fancy grips identified as "Silver City Marshal", "Montana Marshal", etc.  They were dubbed "the poor man's commemoratives".  Parts are NOT interchangeable with Colt.

These guns are not suitable for "hot handloads".  Even when used with factory loaded ammunition, they quickly developed excessive cylinder slop and barrel gaps.  The cylinder bushing and frame contact would peen out.  They are NOT in the Ruger Superblackhawk class of revolver.  I worked on several of these revolvers and all developed the cylinder slop problem.  I would suggest using .44 Special ammunition and modest quantities of .44 magnum to prolong the working life of the revolver.  I would avoid the high velocity 180 grain and heavy bullet (300 grain) loads.

[georgeld]

In Feb '73 I bought a matched pair of these in .22/22mag, Western Marshall.

Blued w/plastic stag style'd grips.  They developed hand to cyl problems and were never fired more than a few hundred rounds between them all.

Traded the pair for a slick '72 T Bird from my son in law.  He let a friend have one to make some grips he liked better.  Lost contact with each other, lost one of the guns too. So the /1  /2 pair are broken up.

When the wife died in '03, the step dau got the other one. So that's gone now too. The boy left them both and a M94 behind, he's lost that one to me too.  heck of a deal huh?

From my little bit of experience with these, I wouldn't buy another one of their guns, nor would I put much into changing one either and certainly wouldn't load 'em hot for sure.

George

[Lloyd Smale]

must have been a common problem as i had an identical 22 and it had the same problem. Ended up giving it away.

In Feb '73 I bought a matched pair of these in .22/22mag, Western Marshall.

Blued w/plastic stag style'd grips.  They developed hand to cyl problems and were never fired more than a few hundred rounds between them all.

Traded the pair for a slick '72 T Bird from my son in law.  He let a friend have one to make some grips he liked better.  Lost contact with each other, lost one of the guns too. So the /1  /2 pair are broken up.

When the wife died in '03, the step dau got the other one. So that's gone now too. The boy left them both and a M94 behind, he's lost that one to me too.  heck of a deal huh?

From my little bit of experience with these, I wouldn't buy another one of their guns, nor would I put much into changing one either and certainly wouldn't load 'em hot for sure.

George

[44 Man]

I picked up a pair of .22s last year.  One had a cylinder stop broken and I altered a Uberti part for it and the other had the hand problem.  That was an easy fix once I figured out what was causing it.  The hand cut in the frame was too long and allowed the hand to drop below the next rachet down on the cylinder and would tie up the gun.  I simply preened the bottom of the slot so the hand would not drop so far forward and the problem was solved.  I can't complain, I paid $40 for one and $60 for the other.  I cut the 5 1/2" barrels to 4 3/4" and use them for fast draw and spinning practice with the Christian Cowboys.  We do theatrical gunfights and historical re-enactments.  I have never fired them with live ammo but they do see lots of use with blanks and I have had no additional problems .  I have less into them than I would for a 'non' gun replica for holster use at parades and such.  The black finish was wearing badly so I bead blasted them and they are going out to get nickle plated soon.  I do have to say I have not heard of problems with the Hawes .357s or .44's before this.  44 Man

[Lloyd Smale]

for that price you sure couldnt go wrong. Id antique them that would be cheaper and would look realistic for your reenactments.

[Catfish]

The first .44 mag. I ever shot was a J.P.Sauer and Sons. That was back in 1967 when I was stationed in Germany. The guy had just bought it and a box of ammo. With less than 1/2 of the box fired he had jarred off the ejector and had a bloody finger from recoil. The gun seemed like it was built on a .38 frame and was really brutal. They were all taken off the market and the .357`s were made made into .22 rimfire and the .44 mag`s. were made into .357`s. I`m not sure if the model I shot was the one your looking at, but that soured me on all of their guns.

[warrior1]

talk about a coincidence,my cousin just recently showed me a pair he bought back from germany in the early 70s.
nice looking guns,but if remember right he hasn't shot them for quite a long time. one was a 357 and one was a 44mag.

[mcshot]

I always thought that JP Sauer and Sohn were quality manufacturers.  I know they were considered such at the Mich. Antique Arms shows I attended. 
I have a blued and case hardened Western Marshall in .357.  It was unfired when purchased and remains so.  Guess I'll save it for .38s if I shoot it at all.
mc

[John Traveler]

J.P. Sauer and Sohn is indeed a quality manufacturer of firearms.  They made their reputation for quality shotguns, rifle/shotgun combos, rifles, and several handgun (M38, SIG 226, etc) designs.  When the S&S single action revolvers were designed in the late 1960's, they were produced to fill the demand for showy "cowboy" guns and modest marketing prices.  I recall the .357 magnum "Western Marshall" model selling for around US$90 in the early 1970's when the Colt SAA was US$250.  With price differences like that, you can expect some production shortcuts to be made.

While the cosmetics of the S&S revolvers are nice, there were apparently some manufacturing shortcuts taken with the S&S sixguns that make them less than heavy-duty shooters.  Specifically, heat treatment and materials.  The rimfire versions used steel-lined zinc castings in the cylinders and barrels.  Hammer/sear notches wore out easily, firing pins and cylinder pin bushings peened out, hands and locking bolts broke, from sights came loose, and the action screws loosened constantly.  Now, certainly, many of these symptoms are characteristic of the Colt SAA design,  but after seeing so many Sauer revolvers that had ALL of these characteristics, I can honestly say that they are NOT the equal of Colt, Ruger, Freedom Arms, or other domestic SAA type revolvers.

John