Author Topic: 45 colt contender compared to 45 70.. (Read 1724 times)

kennisondan · « **on:** September 05, 2007, 07:56:34 AM »

I ahve a contender 45 colt barrel en route and ws toying with the 45 70 barrels for sale on classifieds.. but wonder, unless I am wanting to really explore the hinterlands of recoil,
>>>is there much the 45 70 will do that the 45 colt will not from the contender pistol...
I know I do not want wrist wrenching recoil for the most part, cause I like to shoot a lot.
the thoughts on the contender 45 was that I could scope it and use it for longer range than the sixguns with open sights shoot for me... and maybe get a lttle more out of the barrel length and overall weight with still fairly comfotable recoil .
still only shooting medium game...
I tend to think the 45 will do what I want unless I want to really set up for some super stiff recoil and then maybe the 45 will still match the 45 70 at similar recoil levels, I know the heaviest 45 loads are a lot of recoil in a short sixgun, and will go more than I want to regularly tap into or that I need to use in that gun...
>>>so is the 45 70 just a monster if/when you get it to out perform the 45 colt ?
dk

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** September 05, 2007, 08:28:16 AM »

You can see comparisons tween the two on Hodgdon's website, choose pistols, although they don't indicate barrel length, the Annual shows the Colt Ruger/TC/FA data in a 7¼" barrel compared to the 15" 45-70 barrel. Hornady 6th shows the 300gr XTP @ 1300fps in the 10" Contender 45C barrel and 300gr HP @ 1600fps in the 16" 45-70 Contender barrel. The advantage I see is the 45-70 could be loaded down to 45C levels if the recoil of the heavier loads was too much.

As usual, the best answer is BOTH!!!

Tim

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

And a tantalizing prospect for the 45 Colt Contender barrel is the Hornady .452" SST and maybe someday, the .452" FTT 450 Bushmaster round if they ever offer it as a component. I get a little over 1900fps in a 20" barrel with the SST.

Lone Star · « **Reply #2 on:** September 05, 2007, 12:29:10 PM »

I own both, and each has different advantages. The .45LC is plenty for most handgun uses and because it uses lighter bullets it can perform well without 'excessive' recoil - but it still kicks! I get close to 1500 fps with a max load of AA#9 in my 10" ,45LC with the 240 Hornady. In spite of what some may say, this bullet penetrates very well due to its tough construction - plenty for any deer. You can load up a 300-grain bullet if that floats your boat.

The .45-70 is more of a specialty tool, IMO anyway. 300 grains is about the lower limit of hunting bullet weights, but recoil is tough using top loads. I have gotten near 1800 fps with published trapdoor loads in my 16" T/C, but recoil was brutal. The .45-70 is more suitable for larger game with heavier bullets. I believe that you should follow my lead and have both.

.

jhalcott · « **Reply #3 on:** September 05, 2007, 01:45:24 PM »

While I do NOT have the 45 colt barrel I do have the 15" 45-70 one. I also have a 44 mag revolver. I'd go with what Lone star said about the 45-70 as a specialty tool. A hot loaded .44 mag is unpleasant after a couple cylinders. The 45 70 is NASTY after a few really hot loads. You can load either down some, but you can NEVER reach the 45-70's top end loads with a 500 grain lead slug with either the .44mag or 45 colt.

kennisondan · « **Reply #4 on:** September 05, 2007, 04:42:43 PM »

I think I should have gotten the 45 70 first..
it can be loaded down further than the 45 can be loaded up... DUH..??
dk

corbanzo · « **Reply #5 on:** September 05, 2007, 05:41:22 PM »

Hey Tim, are those SST's you are using the 200 grainers for the .45 colt? I was thinking of loading some of those for my .454casull, and load them up till they won't shoot straight.

And the .45-70 is way up and beyond the .45colt for power and recoil. IMO. Look at the case capacity... and you are talking about a .452vs a .458. .452's run a lot smaller than the .458's do. 395 grainers are the biggest I've seen in a .452, I've seen up to about 600 grainers in .458.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** September 05, 2007, 06:23:23 PM »

No, the 200gr SSTs are .400", thought about trying some of those loaded in the 45-70 in the sabots!!

https://www.hornady.com/shop/?page=ballistics/popup&product_sku=67132

The 250gr SST is only available in packs of 20 with sabots, for $10-$12, not cheap, but if compared to the 250gr .458" TSX, they're less!! Since they're made for muzzleloader velocities, they should work fine in the Casull.. Krochus mentioned shooting some of the 250gr Shockwaves thru his 460S&W Katahdin Encore barrel, dunno if they'd hold up on a close shot tho, should work from a handgun tho, I'd think. Whether there'd be any advantage at typical handgun ranges tho would be a matter of marksmanship, I know my handgun capabilities leave a lot to be desired!!

https://www.hornady.com/shop/?page=ballistics/popup&product_sku=67272

As for the 45-70 in 16" Contender barrels, velocities are down around 1200-1350fps with IMR3031 with 300gr Hornadys and about 950fps with 292gr cast bullets according to the Lyman 48th. Their comment is: This is not a cartridge for handgunners of faint heart. Recoil is very severe when shot in the T/C Contender.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,121257.msg1098410209.html#msg1098410209

Ranger Rick has .458" bullets up to 720grs, I've not shot any yet, but have shot his 700gr .500S&W bullets in my H&R.

http://www.lsstuff.com/ranger-rick/

corbanzo · « **Reply #7 on:** September 05, 2007, 08:37:45 PM »

I know there has to be a 200 Grain SST in 451 or 452, because that is what they load in the .460SW for their super fast factory load....

https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_session=8e55984043f26ae4436da850fe6c1ce6&page=shop%2Fbrowse&category_id=406901c65d24bde69581930e4f958ddc

Just cant find it on their website...

corbanzo · « **Reply #8 on:** September 05, 2007, 08:40:56 PM »

Or am I wrong and those are saboted?

Nope, just looked,they arent saboted. So does hornady have those bullets available?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** September 05, 2007, 08:50:40 PM »

So far as I know, none of the FTT(flex tip technology) bullets are available as a component, the 200gr and 250gr SST FTTs are only available in loaded ammo, the 250gr comes in the 450 bushmaster.

Tim

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=339595&t=11082005

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=979384&t=11082005

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** September 05, 2007, 08:57:37 PM »

These are the .400" 200gr SSTs that I referred to for use in the 45-70 loaded in a sabot if it's made for a .458" bore, gonna have to do some measuring first tho.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=450531&t=11082005

These are the .452" bullets I'm using in the 45 Colt.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=450531&t=11082005

They also make em in 300gr.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=930725&t=11082005

All of these have a hard ballistic tip, they aren't flex tips.

Tim

corbanzo · « **Reply #11 on:** September 05, 2007, 08:59:38 PM »

Yeah, I might have to move over to barnes then for the lighter bullets... the XPB's in 200 grains seem to deserve a try.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/pistol/

quickdtoo · « **Reply #12 on:** September 05, 2007, 09:06:13 PM »

I've got a box of the 325gr and 375gr XPBs for the .500 Handi, but haven't shot em yet, they're a nice looking HP spitzer compared to their other bullets.

Tim

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=359569&t=11082005

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=160549&t=11082005

corbanzo · « **Reply #13 on:** September 06, 2007, 06:47:17 AM »

Yerah, that design looks really good, should load up some .500's for the revolver with that.

I was thinking of the x bullets for the .458 lott... but I dont know about the expense, cause seriously, I dont need that good of bullet for anything up here in AK with a .458. Maybe if I was loading for the 45-70 and I wanted that edge...

Lone Star · « **Reply #14 on:** September 06, 2007, 04:29:42 PM »

Quote

I think I should have gotten the 45 70 first..it can be loaded down further than the 45 can be loaded up... DUH..??

But the reality is, load the .45-70 to exceed .45CL performance and you have severe recoil, particularly in the light Contender. How often would you actually need to shoot a 400-grain bullet in the lower 48? I hunted with both cartridges for 25 years in Alaska and used 300s for everything but brownies - used the Hornady 350s there. A 240/250 at 1300-1500 fps will fill 90% of your needs for a straightwalled case, and the .45LC can handle that. Before you buy that .45-70 barrel - try some max loads with 300-grain bullets in the .45LC first. You may change your mind.

.

kennisondan · « **Reply #15 on:** September 06, 2007, 05:26:38 PM »

THanks guys : Lonestar: I kind of felt that way but was doubting the wisdom of it.. I know the 45 colt with really hot loads in the five shots and small six shots is all the recoil fun I want most times if not all the time... for fun shooting and lots of shooting with the same loads for hunting and all practice... the 300gr. corbon load @less than 1300fps from my 5.5"barrells penetrated a 12x12 timber and was a lot of recoil not too much but all I wanted for my uses... I have a bunch of 265 gr. cast, IIRC with gas checks that would probably fill a deer tag... what kind of practical range do you think I can get from the 45 colt in the contender ? I may want to use the contender for the farther shots and a five or six shooter for closer shots of opportunity on WHitetails in Louisiana and a few hogs if I am lucky enough to convince someone to help me eradicate them...
scoped like my 35 Remington contender with a 4x .. think 150 to 200yds is too much to ask ? what did you get from the 45 colt at distance ?

thanks to all ==this is interesting, and I keep getting the same lessons... enough for the lower 48 is plenty of gun and recoil can still be tolerable... not punishing.. if I ever get to go for brown bear or other toothy animals that regard me as white meat lunchables I can practice enough with reduced loads, re-sight with the super - stompers and limit shooting them so as not to develop a flinch problem. I am just hoping that the contender will reach out a bit with those 45 colt bullets... if not, the whitetails will be deader, I guess... LOL
dk

Ken ONeill · « **Reply #16 on:** September 07, 2007, 12:27:31 AM »

Kennisondan,
As others have said, the .45 Colt @~ .44 Mag. levels is all you will need if you hope to avoid extreme recoil. My original .45-70 12" Hunter Contender barrel runs a 400 Speer @ 1360 fps for an everyday load, but the recoil after a few rounds is not fun. It will make your T/C Contender .35 Rem. feel like a pop gun. It's great for Buffalo size game, which is all I've used it for, but not really "necessary" otherwise...just fun.
With regard to the .35 Rem., killing power and trajectory @ 150 yards is just fine for deer and black bear sized game, assuming you run it @ close to 2000 fps mv with handloads. A 200 gr. (and even a 180) really takes a plunge between 150- 200 yds., so the trajectory can be a problem. The .35 Rem. is a great handgun cartridge, particularly in a bolt gun, like an XP.

kennisondan · « **Reply #17 on:** September 12, 2007, 03:08:28 PM »

thanks to all responding... I experienced the thirty five with the one hundred fifty grain factory loads at closer range and went to a two hundred pointed bullet and missed animals that I expected to hit a little over one hundred and sixty yards...did not realize the huge difference that and a different forend would make... stupidest thing I did in a while... probably the stupidest anyway.. just not thinking..
want to know how stupid it can get... pulled the scope off, thinking I needed to re mount it and re sight it in then realized just what I had done wrong... what a rookie mistake.. and a misjudged distance... all translate into a miss..
will try to do better with the thirty five and the forty five as well ... and will try to know the distance, too.... LOL
DK
think the forty five will have useable trajectory at one hundred fifty yards as well...?
dk

corbanzo · « **Reply #18 on:** September 12, 2007, 05:03:30 PM »

You could look into a .454 casull also. That gives you the ability to load a few hundred fps faster than the .45colt, but also use the .45 colt for your lower recoil rounds, or shorter distance hunting.

The .454 would be a great round out of a contender at 150 yards.

Chris Potts · « **Reply #19 on:** September 12, 2007, 05:38:44 PM »

I am pretty sure that the contender will not handle the 454 casull.

Chris

corbanzo · « **Reply #20 on:** September 12, 2007, 10:27:05 PM »

Well... I guess for the contender you could get the .445 supermag.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=651138&t=11082005

Also about the same as the .454 casull.

The Old Redneck · « **Reply #21 on:** September 13, 2007, 12:51:39 PM »

I shoot both and the range next to my shop is 140 yards from bench to last target stand. The drop for both the 45 and 45/70 at that range is healthy for the heaver bullets. The bullets like the 250 grain Barnes hollow point in .458 and jacketed bullets in the same weight range in .452 will run close to the same amount of drop when loaded up in both rounds. When loading the 360 grain .452 bullet in the .45 against about the same size bullet in the 45/70, the 45/70 will have the advantage at the longer range with less drop by several inches. I love the way nice wood grips look, but use the grips with the rubber insert for the heavy recoil guns. I agree with the ones that say buy both, but would buy the 45 first because it will do just about anything you want. The 360 grain lazer cast wide nose flat point bullets in the 45 will shoot through most hogs when loaded up from just about any direction. It is a tough bullet, and you can push it as fast as the Contender can stand. On the other end you can play with the light cowboy loads. I have shot from round ball loads out of the 45/70, up to just over 500 grain loads, and if I'm going to play with one and shoot very much the 45 Colt will probably be the gun. The 45/70 with the heavy bullet loads is fun when your around a bunch of guys. The blast and recoil gets peoples attention, and the fun of watching someone shoot one the first time can be worth the cost of the barrel. Do not let kids and women shoot it unless they have shot heavy recoil guns. Have fun with both, you know your going to get both. You can usually find the 45/70 barrels at gunshows right after hunting season starts reasonably priced. They are like the 44 mag revolvers when they first came out, and some people find out they don't want one as bad as they thought. After shooting the 35 Remington you can handle it.

kennisondan · « **Reply #22 on:** September 13, 2007, 02:55:40 PM »

thanks again for the reccomendations and the experience shared as well.
looking forward to the contender barrel getting here and loading it up for the first time... gonna start a little low and proceed with great exctiement, scoped and rested to see what I can do with it up to one hundred fifty yards... and learning to use a range finder for this season as well, so I do not have to guess wrong any more...
this is gonna be a great year for learning and new experiences...
dk