Remington accuracy question

[howie1968]

I  just  purchased  a  used  rem 700 ADL 308n  with  a  leaupold vari X11 3-9x40   it  came  with  2  stocks   the  origianl wood  and  the  remington  factory  synthetic  junk.  when  i  got  the  rifle  i  made  sure  everything  was  snug  the  guy  said  it  shot  inch  groups   to  my  amazemnt  it  would  shoot  around  3  inch  groups.  after  shooting  up  3  boxes  of  various  ammo  i  took  and  removed   the  2  pressure  points  and   opened  the  barrel  channel  up  a  bit   I  was  attemting  to  free  float    but  it  seems  the  more  i  sand  the  more  the  stock  recesses  into  the  stock  angling  forward   these  stocks  are  hollow  from  therecol  lug  area  forward.
        i w as  told  that  you  cannot  glass  bed  and  float  thes stocks  as  the  glass  wont  stick  to  the  plastic.   after  doing  my  inexperienced  modifications   the  gun  shoots   under  2  inches   is  thios  acceptable   for   200  yard  hunting  and  less??ive  gotten  groups   from  1 1/4  to   2  inches  with  consistancy.   ive  tried  the  factory  wood  stock  and  it  is  worse  scattering  shots  every  where  any  adice   will  be  appreciated

[gunnut69]

The simplest way to float a barrel is to shim the action away from the inletting.  I use card stock as it will only be in place a short while.  Before doing this, with the action tightened down as if ready for shooting release the rear screw while holding your finger on the junction of the stock and the rear tang.  There should be no perceptable movement.  Retighten and do the same test on the front action screw.  If the sction moves when the screws are backed out the barrel is not floating and or the action is twisted.. Factory synthetic stocks can be bedded but they are generally so poor as to be unworthy of the effort.  Also the crown should be checked.  Many crowns have tiny fractures of flakes missing that make the bullet release a bit un-even.  recut the crown and accuracy will sometimes come bouncing back!!There are other things that can aid accuracy, If these don't help, just let us know...  Perhaps others will also have ideas..

[Smiley]

I think on the 700s most use the pillar bedding system. I know that the 300 mag has a pressure point  in the channel. If you take that out you will have problems. My 270 has a free floating barrel and its shoots fine. Did you try to slide a piece of paper between the barrel and stock? If its tight it should be in places not all around. Also tighten the front screw first I think 40 inch lbs and the rear less. They don't have to be double hand tight. <

[gunnut69]

Smileys right, they don't have to be 2 hand tight!!  The front should be tightened first and it's best to allow the barreled action to settle to the rear (to allow better contact between recoil lug and stock mortice)before tightening the front one.  The rear screw really shouldn't have much to do..and the tang should not move when it is tightened or loosened.  All Remington 700's have a pressure point just behind the front of the forearm.  They usually shoot quite well.  If they don't I always check the crown first, unless I can see that the bedding's been fooled with..  I have heard the theory that because the barrels are button rifled there is a thin layer of very hard work hardened steel in the bore from the button.  This chips at the muzzle creating the uneveness that is remedied by recutting the crown...  This frequently cures mild accuracy problems with the 700 series rifles..  Another thing I usually check before making a lot of changes is to run a tight patch thru the bore.  If you can feel tight and loose spots the rifle has probably been fired with oil or water in the bore and it is no longer uniform in diameter.  For this the only cure is a new barrel...

[Mikey]

Howie:  I once had a Remington 308 that gave me such a difficult time grouping I was just about ready to beat it into a plowshare.  I couldn't get the darn thing to group under 3" with any ammo rolled out by a factory, or even Salt Lake City sniper rounds.  I had to seriously relieve and then bed the entire action out no farther than the front end of the chamber area before she would shoot worth a dang.  And then the only thing she would shoot well was reloads that weren't a whole lot better than a 30-30 round.  I finally gave it to my brother because he didn't know any bettr and thought it was plenty accurate for his needs.  

I wholeheartedly agree with gunnut about most of the factory synthetic stocks and prefer wood instead but had heard you could bed them.  I wqs not aware that Remington barrels were button rifled but had I known that I prolly would have found myself a ten pound button and rifled the darn thing myself, one whack at a time.  Good luck with your project.  Mikey.

[howie1968]

I  have  decided to sell  the  gun  and  have  plenty  o  ofers    the   gun  would  print  nder  2  inches   but  i  am  not  happy   with  it  considering  my   rem 710  will  shoot  under  an  inch   unlike  the  guy  who  sold  it  to  me  I  have  told  people the  truth  and  showed  accuracy  targets   thanks  again

[Yukon Jack]

Just to add some discussion, here's a few thoughts to ponder about HUNTING rifle accuracy.

First, don't get me wrong, I believe all rifles manufactured today should be able of MOA, or very near, accuracy.  But what if it's not?

You said your rifle would shoot 2" groups consistantly.  If the individual shots are pretty well distributed, then that means any given shot is within one inch of where you are aiming at 100 yards.  At 200 yards its 2", 3" at 300 yards.  That isn't that bad, if you really think about it.  If you are aiming right behind the front shoulder on a whitetail deer at 300 yards (and have correctly allowed for trajectory), it is still a heart/lung shot.  Unless you are using a really high power scope, its hard to distinguish 3" at that 300 yard range.  As a matter of fact, in a true hunting situation, I doubt very many of us can put our scope crosshairs back in that exact same location for the hurried 2nd shot.

Then there is the question about groups.  I personally feel that there is an overemphasis placed on shooting tiny groups.  To me, my personal measure of a rifle's accuracy is putting the first shot from a cold barrel (clean or fouled, whatever floats your boat) to the same spot everytime.  After all, its the first shot that matters.  If you miss or make a bad first shot, its likely your second is going to be at a moving animal with a lead of some distance and will likely include partially obscured target due to brush and rocks, etc...

A rifle that shoots sub MOA groups is sure nice to have at the range and in the field.  But if I had one that shot 1.5 MOA or 2 MOA, and it put the first shot from a cold barrel in the same spot, day in and day out, I would not hesitate to use it.  To me, the problem rifles are the ones with the inconsistent placement of that first shot.

I do believe we should all strive to make our rifles as accurate as possible.  But to me, rifle accuracy is about making clean and human kills on animals at the distance I hunt them from.  I have a few rifles that are 1.5 MOA shooters, yet make that all important first shot count.  I do not hesitate to take these rifles into the field when the hunting conditions and terrain call for them.

Just something to think about.

[gunnut69]

I love accurate rifles but have to agree, there is a great difference between target accuracy and hunting accuracy.  I would bet the 308 will do a lot better with a bit of work.  The 710's are pure and simply put, junk.  I've handled several and you would be better served with the lowest grade of savage 110... Also just as an aside, no Remington sporter is pillar bedded from the factory..  Pillar bedding is not really an accuracy improving device.  It is meant to keep a well bedded rifle from 'going sour' with the passage of time.  The wood seperating the action from the bottom metal compresses and can cause the rifle's accuracy to deteriorate.  To forestall  that we install pillars of a material that's less compressable than wood, usually either metal or epoxy.

[Krag2]

I know one thing for sure, the load going down the pipe can make a world of difference in the gun's accuracy!  I've got my Dad's 270 which is a 700 ADL made, I believe, sometime in the 60' or 70's and it took a while to come up with a load that would consistantly do better than an inch and a half.  The worse problem I've had is an old Remington pump Model 14A in 35 Rem.  MANY kinds of powder and bullets later I can finally make it stay about 2 inches.  I even sent the scope to Leupold to check out.  From the way the groups kept changing I didn't know and wanted to be sure.  If the guy said your gun would shoot good groups, just maybe he should have told you with what load.

Good luck, Krag2