fail proof slip proof scope mounting on heavy kickers

[kennisondan]

Ok guys : what is your method for holding a scope on a heavy kicking TC or other handgun for that matter. I am hearing the 460 is moving some scopes in the rings... I was thinking adhesive in the rings, but I am a really high tech coon ass...
thanks for your insights.
dk

[Gavinator]

 I have broken scopes and battered bases, the best method I've found are the Weaver 4x4 rings and 92 base, keep the weight down on the scope choice too.

[BobT]

Use a 6 screw base like the T'SOB or a modified Weaver, make sure the base screws don't bottom out in the holes, use at least three rings, four if they will fit and make sure that they are lapped for full contact. I mark the rings so I can keep the right top on the right bottom and the top oriented the same way every time. I also mark the rings in the order they go on the base. This keeps things simple in case I ever have to remove the scope. Some folks use red locktite on the base screws, I usually use the blue. I have had good luck most of the time with the hard kickers although I don't have a .460 I have kept scopes on Contender barrels in .358 JDJ, .45/70, and .444 Marlin. Oddly enough the only barrel I've ever had much of a problem with is a 10" .30 Herrett barrel, a relative "cream puff" it's on scope #4 right now they don't slip on this barrel they just seem to break internally. The lower the rings and the lighter the scope the less torque gets transmitted to the base.

Good Luck!
Bob

[Graybeard]

The REAL SECRET to having a scope not move is quite simple really.

First and foremost you either use Burris Signature rings or you lap your other rings so they properly fit the scope tube and offer maximum gripping surface. Next you mount it so the front of the turret is up against a ring. Scopes move forward NOT backward under recoil so if you have it as far forward as it can go and the ring serves as a physical stop it can't move forward. If the rings fit properly and are properly tightened down it won't twist either.

Proper mounting is the real and ONLY secret to long scope life and having it stay put in the rings.

[EdK]

One more thing - really an extension of GB's comment: ring marks are not normal. They are an indication of improper mounting/damage and not normal wear. Burris signature inserts solve this as well as reaming/lapping your rings. Not many folks (or gunsmiths) bother with this. It eliminates torque on the scope tube (which in turn can put stress on an action), the dents so commonly seen and with 90+% of the surface area of the rings in contact with the scope tube it largely solves slipping.

None of the scopes I've removed after proper installation have any ring marks whatsoever (they don't slip either).

[irold]

Can you lap a vertical split ring ?   SSK puts their vertical split rings on some real kickers....people say they don't move.

[Graybeard]

You can but it's a lot more hassle. I hate vertical split rings and refuse to use them on any of my guns.

[kennisondan]

Anyone familiar with Seekins precision rings and mounts or Badger ordnance rings in addition to those mentioned ? any additional information floating around out there ?
thanks to all so far.. good input.
dk

[irold]

GB , Will the Burris Signature rings fit on the SSK base ?  I looked in Midway, can't find the Signature series in their  " weaver style " listings.  I assume the signature rings come with the inserts you spoke of ?   Thanks to all

[quickdtoo]

The Burris Signature Weaver style rings are called Zee rings, the 1" come in medium and high, matte, gloss and nickel, 30mm also come in extra high.

Tim

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00023420531

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00023420521

http://www.midwayusa.com/esearch.exe/search?search_keywords=burris+signature+zee&category_selector=all_products&Click+to+Begin+Search.x=9&Click+to+Begin+Search.y=9

[Steve P]

Some good comments referenced above.  I have a little addition to supply. 

I have seen a common denominator in damaged contender barrels.  Large diameter cases and 6 holes for the scope mount.  IMHO, the extra 2 holes are not needed.

I have a couple barrels set up the with three ring mounts.  Never had a scope move in them.  I try to use the Leupold or Beuhler rings and mounts.  I install and set the rings parallel.  Once scope is in place, a use fingernail polish or loctite on the screws.  I use black electricians tape on the scope tube on either side of the rings.  This will tell me real quick if the scope starts to move in the rings.  If scope moves at all, I need to lap the rings or apply a small piece of painters tape in the bottom section of the rings.  Either one will usually fix any movement. 

Steve   

P.S.  I take the tape off after I have fired a few rounds and confirmed the scope is not moving.  A little hoppes takes any tape residue right off.

[BobT]

Steve,
Please share the info on the damaged barrels, I have never seen this unless the person who put the extra holes in didn't know what they were doing and drilled too deeply. The factory holes are over the thinnest part of the chamber so the two extra forward holes shouldn't pose a problem if done correctly. I went to a six screw set up after a a 2X Leupold complete with rings and base attached hit me in the face. This was 12 or 14 years ago, the scope was installed by the gunsmithing department at a Gander Mountain store after a re-chamber to .30-30AI. Not a particularly hard kicker.

Thanks,
Bob

[Ken ONeill]

I'm with Bob T on this. I've frequently used red Loctite, but you'll have a near-permanent installation if you do. That's been okay with me...that's what I intended. If you fear someone drilling the 5th and 6th holes too deep. send the barrel to SSK to have the base mounted. They did my .375 JDJ 18 years ago, and my .45-70 16 years ago. Still tickin'.

I have 4 vertically split rings on a .454 (14 years), 2 .475 L's (8 and 5 yrs.),and numerous T/C barrels. I've never had a problem with slippage, scope rotation or damage.

[Graybeard]

I think holes too shallow to allow adequate screw thread contact as opposed to too deeply drilled holes are more likely a cause of breakage. Personally I'd like to see the screws changed to 8-40 rather than the standard 6-48. But I've discussed it with JD and he says that the six 6-48s done right are more than adequate and for sure he has a LOT more experience in that area than me. He is confident six 6-48s of correct strength done right are all that's needed.

You really do need at least blue loctite on them to keep the screws from working loose with the vibration of recoil and as long as you know you don't want to remove that base then like Ken says even red loctite or as I have done a time or two epoxy is a sure fire way to make sure all stays in place. Proper mounting of the scope is the key to keeping it alive and healthy especially on hard kickers.

[Keith L]

When I mount the scope base I also make sure the barrel and the mount are fully de-burred so the base sits good and flat.  It is amazing how much space can exist in some barrel/base combos that let the base rock.  It may hold in long enough to get sighted in, but in time will start to move and cause accuracy problems as well as screw breaking.  I normally also put release agent on the barrel side and use the same bedding material (epoxy) as I use when bedding a gun into a wooden stock.  The loctite on the screws and make it tight as heck.  The epoxy fills in any voids and makes sure that things are stable, and the loctite keeps it that way.

Also, start with clean holes and screws.  Remove all the old loctite and oil.

With cure time etc. it takes a couple of days for me to go from start to finish mounting a scope, but they last and stay sighted in.  I would rather take the time up front than have them fail when hunting.

[Steve P]

A friend had a barrel that split right down the line of rear sight holes.  I will try to install a photo of another barrel here that did the same thing.  You can see the scope base above the barrel and the big hump in the base where the 5/6 holes would be.  I have a couple of barrels at home with the two added holes, but I did them before seeing these.  I do not have proof of the failures but the circumstancial evidence is enough to keep me cautious.

Steve   

[Graybeard]

A barrel obstruction NOT scope mount holes is why that one pictured came loose. Now I have torn one up without a barrel obstruction and that's NOT what it looks like. Mine came apart strictly on pressure alone.

[Mudbat]

The REAL SECRET to having a scope not move is quite simple really.

First and foremost you either use Burris Signature rings

Would you think two Signature rings be sufficient on a 15" 7mm-08 with a Leupold 2.5-8 or do I bite the bullet and get a 3rd ring on there to start with?  Currently waiting for a MGM barrel due here in a week or so.

[Graybeard]

I only used two of them on my 15" 7-08 with a Burris 2-7 and it worked just fine.