I've already said, because of the good replies here, that I'm going to buy a Handi. I tried not to make my original post personal towards any gun owners, hunters and shooters here. #1My comments were toward the quality control, accuracy problems, and what I believe is some sloppy craftsmanship that I've read about right here on Graybeard To find those problems you only have to go back thru the many posts here.. I believe that many of these problems can be taken care of at the NEF factory and should be. Many are not. #2It's true that other manufacturers have the same problems. So since they do, does that justify the Handi's problems? Since another gun maker is sloppy does that give NEF or any other gun company the green light to be sloppy too. We're talking quality. #3And no matter the price of the gun, it is a gun and should be given that extra care at the factory. Shouldn't these manufacturers contol that quality? Shouldn't they demand better from their own people and send out the very best product possible? Too many things today are about getting as much of the product out to make as much profit as possible. I like profit as much as the next guy. But is it OK to skimp on the quality of any firearm? Since my original post, there have been several replies that agree with me. #4So not everyone here is on the (whatever NEF or any other gun maker sends out is OK, I'll fix it myself) band wagon. Why would anyone accept these things and say it doesn't bother me, it's OK I'll take care of it, I'll fix it myself. You're the buyer and no matter what brand of gun, you shouldn't have to do your own repairs on a new gun. Those that accept that it's the buyers responsibility to make the gun right are the very reason the makers don't improve that product. They would do more if buyers demanded more.
Let's do this a little different this time...ok...Let's deal with you first half...then we'll get to your personal BS later...
#1...
quality control, accuracy problems, and what I believe is some sloppy craftsmanship that I've read about right here on Graybeard To find those problems you only have to go back thru the many posts here..Which quality control issues are you talking about...What accuracy problems haven't been addressed...As to what you believe is sloppy craftsmanship...one can only hazard a guess...Some rifles have issues...this is granted...but again you skirt around and say with all of the post here...but you don't say what problems you are referring to...Be specific...DO NOT allude that all of these rifles have problems...just because a few folks agree they can improve these rifles as they come from the factory only means these individuals have their own issues with them...not everyone...SO QUITE ACTING LIKE THEY DO.
#2...Again...BE SPECIFIC...Where is the sloppy craftsmanship at...The fit and finish of them? These rifles are shipped as they are designed...What part of this aren't you capable of comprehending? They aren't charging for custom fitted stocks...fine walnut...or any other exotic furniture...These rifles have been manufactured this way from the beginning...the dollar example is pointing out how much more you will spend for some other manufactured rifle...it isn't justification for anything...Like I said before...perfection comes at a cost...these rifles don't cost a-lot by todays standards...They are produced within the specs that NEF has set down...this is inclusive to the rifles complete production...If you feel that the rifle demonstrates sloppy traits...this is only your personal opinion ...not a standard feeling shared here...Can improvements be made...of course there can always be some room for improvement...but...this as Cascadedad replied to you isn't poor craftsmanship or a quality control issue you so set on that all these rifles have...It is how the rifle is made...and how they always have been made...You either accept it for what it is...change it to your standards..or DON'T BUY ONE...To stand back and say...Oh...I plan on buying one...then come on here before you do and run off at the mouth complaining about them is akin to walking into a police convention and bad mouthing the cops for the jobs they do...
#3...Sorry Phill...it don't work like this...What you demanding is the same care put into a $275 dollar rifle as what is put into a $1000 bolt gun...I'm sorry..
.but DUDE...Get a Grip would ya...That's like saying I should get the same craftsmanship and level of product on a handi...as one would on a Holland & Holland...
#4...
you shouldn't have to do your own repairs on a new gun. Those that accept that it's the buyers responsibility to make the gun right are the very reason the makers don't improve that product. They would do more if buyers demanded more....What repairs are are you talking about that isn't normal owner upkeep? As to the rest...Where is your research at here...If you had actually done any to speak of...you couldn't honestly make this statement...How many polls have we done...How many letters...phone calls...What major stock holder did I invite to come here...and take our suggestions straight to the damn board of directors of MARLIN...? You haven't done any research here at all...otherwise you would already know these things...Don't come here and try to BS your way around Phill...it won't work on my watch...and I don't give a tinkers damn if you think this is getting personal or not...You know why...I'll tell ya...I gave you an out Phill...That's right...an out...do you know what an out is Phill...I bet you do...Here...let me show you...
Let me say this...before you think I am needlessly slamming you...because I not really...I think you have some valid concerns...and I truly hope you go back and read what most of are really saying about these rifles...None of us are saying they are perfect...because they aren't...Yes...they do have some peculiarities...and some quality control issues...but this in NORMAL...for the low cost of the rifle.
...but you didn't catch that did you Phill...no...you were to busy skimming over it...you really didn't take the time to read it did you Phill...Now...Let's get to the personal stuff...shall we...
------------
MAC, you made this kindof personal. I wish you hadn't. I didn't intend for that to happen but since you did, her's back at you....Who's kidding who here...You did exactly this knowing full well what would happen...after all...if we are to believe what you have said so-far...then you must have known since you have done all of this research here...
It must have taken you a LOOOOONG time to break my post down sentence by sentence. Thanks for all that effort, but you're not as great an attorney as one of your buds claims. I've never claimed to be a lawyer...but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express...
Please call the facrtory and ask them about the barrels. Ask them about stress. Tell us what you find out....Again...if you had done any research on here...you would know about this...I don't need to call them about it...and really...why should I share what I am privileged to know...with someone who feels these are sloppy rifles... Sorry...it doesn't work that way around here...
I have to say that without a doubt you are the best possible representative that NEF has.Thankyouverymuch...
Do they pay you? ...Nope...not a dime...
They should....That's debatable...I really don't think corporate likes me very much...and if you had bothered researching this little fact...you would know...others here have alluded to it...I suggest you stop saying you have...when obviously you haven't...and actually do some research...That way you won't make yourself out as bad as you have already......
Since you're a moderator here I'd guess you keep in touch with NEF by frequently checking on your guns that are in for repairs and problems, or maybe you do all your own repairs that should be done before leaving the factory....News flash...I had contacts at NEF long before I became a moderator here...I haven't
had to do any repairs myself to my Handi's...UNDERSTAND...I have a normal procedure I follow with all of my rifles...it's how I do things...I keep in touch with many different manufactures on a regular basis...
Maybe you call or email the factory regularly and tell them to read your posts about how you stand up for them....So...you think I toot my own horn with them ehh...That's a riot...I don't have to dude...they already know what is said here...since there are many NEF employees that read this forum everyday...Again...your lack of researching this site is showing again...
I'd bet you are on a first name bases with the NEF people too. Absolutely...and Marlin too...not to mention I have contacts at every rifle manufacture here in this country...and many overseas as well...and bullet manufactures...powder manufactures...clothing manufactures...automobile manufactures...SO WHAT
You are the worst kind of NEF gun owner there is in my opinion MAC.No I'm not...
You apparently just accept the problems these guns have, because they're all part of the "Handi" deal, and again those many problems are posted right here on Graybeard....You don't have the foggiest idea of what I discuss with NEF or Marlin...or to who I speak too...Again...IF...you had done some background searching...you wouldn't be saying to stupid BS...
You as a moderator should read them sometime. LISTEN TO YOURSELF MAN...I guarantee I have read more here than most of the folks here...
Someone at NEF no doubt reads these forums and since you do accept the idea that you should do the work they should be doing, you might possibly get a pat on the back, maybe a new stock and forearm, a simple thank you, or maybe something extra special in the mail from them. ...Here's where you are very close of getting in trouble...
I don't know that for sure MAC but I figure you reap some rewards....Now you have...Where the hell do you get off saying this Bull Crap...How dare you insult me in this way...I don't sugar coat any thing with these rifles when there is a ligament issue...What you figure or think...isn't important to me at all...What you say...is...Don't Say something like this again...to any body...YOU DON"'T HAVE THAT RIGHT...UNDERSTAND...I don't get paid by NEF...You don't want to say something like this again...
You're exactly what they're looking for. You're what every gun manufacturer or any product manufacturer is looking for, someone that will say what the company wants to here....Your just letting your mouth overload your backside son...because you don't know me at all...and you don't know what I have gone thru for this site and these rifles...
That way they don't have to improve their product. They have you out there....Yes...they do have me out here...I am one of the first to take it as high as I can...when something is wrong...but...since you have done nothing but lied to everyone here about researching these rifles...you wouldn't know about it...
Companies keep sending out sloppy work because of guys like you MAC.No they don't...If I see a major problem where the rifles are out of spec...they are told about it...
You accept it and obviously love it, but not all of us do. exactly what have I accepted and love...? Why won't you be more specific and tells us what you see is so sloppy of craftsmanship...instead of referring to a few post by folks with minor problems that were taken care of by the factory...?
After this reply MAC, your buds will come to your rescue again and agree with whatever you have to say....BOY OH BOY...How MORONIC can you get...Sure I have friends here...you bet I do...but if you think everyone on this forum agrees with everything I say...then step away from the bar...happy hour is over...
So say it! Well...you ask for it...now didn't you.....
They gave you a pat on the back after your precious post, and if I researched it, I'm pretty sure they regularly agree with you on most things. Well...don't that beat all...you finally admitted you haven't...and isn't this been what we have been saying... Some of them might be just like you. All of us are not. Post what you want MAC. This is my last reply to you. You're the moderator. Do what you like, just like you do what NEF likes.
If there are this many problems with this gun just here on this forum MAC, just think of all the Handi owners that never read, post or even get on a computer to talk about them....All of these problems...?I am afraid you really don't have a clue...and won't ever have one...
Are there other Handi forums MAC? YUp...but Second news flash...guess where they are told to come...(pssssst...I'll give ya a little hint...
;)it ain't Yahoo...) If so, I bet there are the same problems and complaints there too. That's OK MAC, they have you here at this forum. You'll take care of any questions regarding quality that come up here. They know that. How's all that for personal MAC? To the rest of you that gave your reasons for liking the Handi, or regarding the problems you have had with it, I appreciate your posts. Thank you. Phil
[/quote]
Here's my advise to you Phill...be very careful of slandering folks here...It won't be tolerated be me...or anyone else...and don't complain when you get caught in your own words...You have no one to blame but yourself...Your 15 minutes are over...
Mac
