Author Topic: Casters have you ever saw this happen?????? (Read 1899 times)

Mason Stillwell · « **on:** March 10, 2003, 05:09:41 PM »

Got some wheelweights brought to me and they had some 80/90 wt gear oil in the bottom of the bucket not much but some. So I thought I could just burn it off.
got the lead melted and noticed something in the lead pot. The top of lead was purple and gold colored. When I scraped it off it came back as soon as I moved the spoon. I will try to make a photo of this stuff . It is unbelievable.It even strings out of the spout of the pot.
When/ if you throw in some of this stuff into the lead it does not sink right away kinda floats for a bit.
I think the photo will be worth a million words. I cannot believe it never saw anything like it. I almost thing there is somekind of different metal in those weights.

Pete

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #1 on:** March 11, 2003, 12:05:27 AM »

hard to picture what your refering too. It would help if you could post a picture.

Double D · « **Reply #2 on:** March 11, 2003, 01:15:41 AM »

Sure I have seen that before. You have a very hot pot. That is the alloys; tin, antimony, floating out of the lead.

They say if you skim it all out you will get back to pure lead after a while. That's theory any way. A Theory I intend to explore this spring.

Drop some flux on top of the mix and stir and you will see that stuff disappear.

I won't tell you what flux to use, because I don't want to start and argument....but it's true Fords are better than Chevy's if you like 'em!

Billy Marr · « **Reply #3 on:** March 11, 2003, 03:06:54 AM »

I aggre it is the metals trying to seperate. I have seen it and it is prrety cool the only time I see it is when runing my 250lbs pot though.

Mason Stillwell · « **Reply #4 on:** March 11, 2003, 03:07:35 AM »

Here is a link to my photo page. Scroll down and you will see about 4 photos of this stuff. It is kinda like plastic or something.
I have cast for years trust me this is not the tin and antomony on top of a normal mix.

I hope you can tell by the photos. I will try to get better ones
Pete

http://home.hpphoto.com/servlet/com.hp.HPAlbumPict?com=us&awp=albumshow.html&album_id=2392269

Chief · « **Reply #5 on:** March 11, 2003, 09:31:57 AM »

I have seen the blue color but not from WWs. I picked up some 25lb blocks of lead from a hospital that didn't need them anymore. I think they told me they used the blocks to store radioactive materials while shipping, or something to that affect. Anyway, they said the blocks didn't pose a radiation hazard and the blocks where really soft so I assumed it was pure lead. I melted them down into 1lb ingots in one of those Dutch cast iron pots on a very small two burner electric stove. It barely got hot enough to melt the lead. In fact, I had to put the lid on the pot to build up enough heat. Whenever I took the lid off the lead around the outside of the pot would start hardening up almost immediately. Of course that part of the pot wasn't directly over the burner either. At first, like you I tried to take the blue stuff off but it just came back. I can't offer any explanations, especially since it seems to contradict the experience of some other pretty highly respected casters here, but that's what I've seen with melting the 25lb blocks down.

Chief

HBL · « **Reply #6 on:** March 11, 2003, 10:15:45 AM »

Sounds like you have your lead toooooo hot. Drop the temperature, flux and you should not have this occur again during that casting session, as long as you monitor the heat. :grin:

Graycg · « **Reply #7 on:** March 11, 2003, 02:55:05 PM »

Mason,
I think I know what your problem might be. I never saw anything like it until I got stationed in Miami and got a pail of wheel weights from a place that does tire work for the local BMW and Mercedes dealer. Check out your wheel weights and see if any of them look plastic coated, it seems that the factory applied weights from BMW and Mercedes are plastic coated and the stuff makes a mess in your pot! It takes forever to burn off. I think the Germans make the companies "Encapsulate" the lead with plastic. If that is the case, get yourself lots of flux and get busy, flux and skim, flux and skim.

Check it out, might be your problem, might not, but worth a try.

regards,
Graycg

Cheyenne Ranger · « **Reply #8 on:** March 11, 2003, 04:55:48 PM »

Mason now has the URL's for the pictures so he should be posting them in a new post.
CR

Alferd Packer · « **Reply #9 on:** May 16, 2003, 12:20:00 AM »

I think that multicolored stuff is the lead alloys separating out.
When I cast big heavy bullets-300 to 500 grain, I like the lead real hot.
I have some oily sawdust that I throw (a tablespoon) on top and lite it with a match and stir vigorously with a long handled spoon, and then let it settle till the fire and smoke go out.
I then skim off the smoking ash down to the mirror-bright shiny metal, all the while gently scraping the insides of the pot as well.
Sometimes it needs one more fluxing and I just use some paraffin, or old broken crayons too.
This is an outdoor only trick to try.The smoke is tremendous.

Mason Stillwell · « **Reply #10 on:** May 16, 2003, 03:46:40 AM »

I believe that the syntetic(spelling?) 80/90 oil that was in the bucket was the culprit.
That is all we could come up with. Dont think it is the metals seperating. I have saw that lots. This is 10 time worse than that.

Mason :wink:

Lvl1trauma · « **Reply #11 on:** May 16, 2003, 05:06:19 PM »

I ingotized a bunch of ww today that I got from an 18-wheeler place. There was a fair amount of clean grease in the bottom of the bucket and I threw ww and grease all in the same big iron skillet. It smoked like hell and acted like a flux as it lit a fire as I stirred it. It did leave a thick black residue on the pot that eventually came off as I melted other ww. I don't remember any different color metal so I don't think it could be grease or oil causing the different colors as someone else has said. I think Billy Marr has the most experience here so my money is on him.

Beau

Lead pot · « **Reply #12 on:** May 16, 2003, 05:14:41 PM »

Mason.I see that when I work up WW.I run the pot hot on purpose to skim off the junk to get it softer.
You will get that gold and blue color even from new pure lead if you get it to hot.
I dont know Mason,there is lead in gold,I wonder if lead has gold??? :roll:
Lp.

Mason Stillwell · « **Reply #13 on:** May 16, 2003, 05:31:16 PM »

Not really sure bout the gold in lead.

I know this is some unsual stuff. It when skimmed is thick and like gravy and not very heavy like the skimmings normaly are.

Flat got me baffled.
I did save the stuff dont know why but I did.

Mason

w30wcf · « **Reply #14 on:** May 17, 2003, 03:27:36 PM »

Mason Stillwell,

Sorry to hear of your problem. Fortunately for me, I have not had your experience. I have read that if you keep an alloy just above its liquidous temperature (lowest temperature required to keep the metal in its liquid
state) that over time, impurities can rise to the surface where thay can be skimmed off.

One other thing, according to Dennis Marshall, who is a metalurgist and writes for the Cast Bullet Association, has stated that once an alloy has been made up, THE TIN , ANTIMONY AND LEAD DO NOT SEPARATE! He likened it to sugar and water. Once the sugar is disolved it will not separate from the water.

To prove this theory out, I once filled a pot with 10# of alloy and ran it completely dry without fluxing or stiring. (Do not run your pot completely empty as a standard practice or you will be replacing the heater bands more often than you want to.) The bullets weighed the same from the full pot as they did from the almost empty pot. If the metals were to separate, the bullets would have gotten heavier as the pot was depleted.
That did not happen.

w30wcf

Dross forms on the top of the melt as a result of air meeting the hot surface of the melt.

Louis Farrugia · « **Reply #15 on:** August 16, 2003, 07:29:58 AM »

Quote from: Graycg

Mason,
I think I know what your problem might be. I never saw anything like it until I got stationed in Miami and got a pail of wheel weights from a place that does tire work for the local BMW and Mercedes dealer. Check out your wheel weights and see if any of them look plastic coated, it seems that the factory applied weights from BMW and Mercedes are plastic coated and the stuff makes a mess in your pot! It takes forever to burn off. I think the Germans make the companies "Encapsulate" the lead with plastic. If that is the case, get yourself lots of flux and get busy, flux and skim, flux and skim.

Check it out, might be your problem, might not, but worth a try.

regards,
Graycg

HI GRAYCG

CAN YOU HELP ME AND TELL WHERE I CAN GET FLUX AND THE NAME OF IT TO CLEAN THE LEAD ? AND WHAT IS THE BEST TEMPRETURE TO CAST ?

BEST REGARDS

LOUIS FARRUGIA

John Traveler · « **Reply #16 on:** August 16, 2003, 05:36:02 PM »

Flux can be almost ANY convenient grease or oil with a low flashPoint (low ignition temperature).

I've used candlewax, beeswax, old bullet lubricant, Crisco vegetable (cooking) shortening, etc.

Lubricants such as engine oil or grease won't work because they have relatively high ignition temperature.

John

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #17 on:** August 18, 2003, 02:51:43 PM »

a guy on another fourm told me to tell you that you may be having a zinc problem. I have never had a problem with zinc around here but you may have picked up some ww that were made of zinc and they will definatly contaminate you mix. Nothing can be done about it other then throwing the bad stuff out.

flintman · « **Reply #18 on:** August 21, 2003, 06:27:17 AM »

I was pouring some .45 paper patch Sharps bullets and made a pretty neat hollow point with a deep cavity!Purely by accident and keep it to this day!

Wildcat Crazy · « **Reply #19 on:** October 29, 2003, 08:18:50 AM »

Many wheelweights,here in the U.S.A. are powder coated to match Mag .wheels in color.I do not know which ingredients are in the powder,but it has a plastic like feel after baking.

For a period of time,there was a powder coating company in Nashville,Tn.,that hired under aged Thai children to load the racks with wheelweights.I witnessed this happening ,while picking up powder coated parts for my employer.

Colors on top of molten lead are oxides,yellow lead oxide{PbO}is also known as Litharge.Red lead oxide{Pb3 O4}and black lead oxide{PbO2},
are the main oxides of lead.The blue that is seen on top of molten lead
is PbO2 which is black lead oxide ,which can be any shade from blue to black.

Black and red lead oxides can be converted back into molten lead
in a bullet casting pot by fluxing with any carbonaceous material.Yellow lead oxide requires temperatures in excess of the pots capabilities.

WC