Author Topic: Went to the range today with new H&R ultra .223 (Read 1146 times)

hannah · « **on:** September 29, 2007, 03:48:52 PM »

well i got my rifle friday .223 ultra varmint with syn stock... mounted a harris bi pod and a elcheapo scope i have to use til i file the lugs on mount so as my armalite mount will fit.......... anyway all i had on hand is some commercial sellier and bellet brass boxer .223 cal 55gr FMJ... gun is a 1/9 twist as is new...at 100 yrds with this ammo the best i could hold was about a 2 inch group... BUT the trigger is HORENDOUS!!!!!!!!!!! in fact i went to the faq's page and am doing a triggerg job, tonight i took apart and tomorrow i will buy a stone ande polish her up, there was a little defect on one of the sears i need to polich out... handi rifles are new to me so i am not looking forward to figuring out how to get the hammer spring in......... ANYWAY....... one thing i noticed was all the recoil... very much more so than an ar...for obvious reasons..... so i am still learning the hold... with ar's i always held VERY loosly and let the slight recoil go freely back into my shoulder....i cant do that AT ALL with this rifle cause the scope will smack me in the face due to the recoil....so i found my hold moreso tight than i prefer to have.... when i get back together after the triggerwork i have some PRVI match 75gr BTHP i will recieve on monday and take pics and report accuracy.... (2) questions.... how do you hold your "handi" for best accuracy??? tight or loose??? and who noticed better results by resting on frame pivot rather than bi-pod and how much better was the accuracy??? this is my first handi rifle and i admit i cant really out shoot the rifle and ammo yet..... this handi has me in for some lessons on shooting them, especially what the best hold is..........

McLernon · « **Reply #1 on:** September 29, 2007, 04:38:14 PM »

My Handi's won't shoot worth a darn when on a bipod. I support the front under the hinge pin. It is hard to hold the rifle still this way but that seems to be the preferred method. Shooting the rifle 'free' is out of the question for my two Handi's. Some Handi's though do shoot off the bipod just fine. I don't know the reason for this.

Mc

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #2 on:** September 29, 2007, 04:46:32 PM »

Hi and welcome to the forum. I have to say that I really do not understand the your problem with the recoil and the hold thing. Unless you have only shot rim fires till now. I believe that the 223 at least to me has no recoil. My daughter shot it when she was 10 without any problem at all. I think the only 2 center fire rifles with any less recoil would be the 17 REM FIREBALL and the 204 RUGER. Dale

hannah · « **Reply #3 on:** September 29, 2007, 04:50:57 PM »

Quote from: DALESCARPENTRY on September 29, 2007, 04:46:32 PM

Hi and welcome to the forum. I have to say that I really do not understand the your problem with the recoil and the hold thing. Unless you have only shot rim fires till now. I believe that the 223 at least to me has no recoil. My daughter shot it when she was 10 without any problem at all. I think the only 2 center fire rifles with any less recoil would be the 17 REM FIREBALL and the 204 RUGER. Dale

i am well aware of recoil and have about lots of heavy recoil rifles mostly 8mm mausers... yes the handi rifles recoil in 223 and no ar15's donrt really recoil at all.... seems simple enough to me...since most my accuracy work was with AR's in .223... the best accuracy obtained with them is with a very free loose hold... i could not do this hold today with the H&R varmint...... so i'm asking people what their preferred hold is... simple enough........

myarmor · « **Reply #4 on:** September 29, 2007, 04:51:08 PM »

It can take some getting use to, but it will make you a better overall marksman from it. Mine ,like most, shoot best with the receiver on top of my bags and pulled snug into them. Trigger pull is critical and you have to "pull through" and hold it back to the rear so the transfer bar is fully engaged. I do not use a hard hold with mine, but I don't shoot them free recoil either. I know Mac and many others here do shoot them free recoil and can boast some incredible groups because of it. If you are able to, then more power to you. I do this with my Bolts, but can't seem to get it just right with my Handis as there are more at work than a bolt. Plus i'm kinda a big dude, at 6,4" and have a hard time benching with the shorter H&R stocks

Still with some practice I got it down pretty good, and I am sure you will too. Just keep shooting...
Take your time on the trigger job and you can find it will help out a ton.

-Aaron

hannah · « **Reply #5 on:** September 29, 2007, 04:58:16 PM »

thanks for reply.... actually i will find a longer eye relief scope and see if i can shoot real loose.... that's why i love the .223 round... but this closed action really surprised me with the recoil, not like i'm new to recoil at all... but from a .223 yes it is new to me.... i'm gonna work on trying to do the standard loose hold with a longer eye relief scope... i just had to confirm people were getting good results with this form of shooting out of the handi rifle.... or if everyone was holding tight or medium for their best results.... be interesting who weigh's in and their results with their preferred hold.......

dumgunny · « **Reply #6 on:** September 29, 2007, 06:58:44 PM »

I don't have any problems with the recoil on my .223, but I do have simular problems with heavier cals due to some arthritis and carpal tunnel syndrome in my wrists the Pistol grip stock are much more comfortable for me especially in the heavier cals.. You may want to try the Pistol grip type stocks on the market. ATI has one that pretty much mimics the m4 style AR, and choate offers several other pistol grip stocks as well. The new Varmint stock even has a built in bi-pod "rail"
BT

Inrut24/7 · « **Reply #7 on:** September 30, 2007, 03:02:12 AM »

I shoot my 223 uv and 22 hornet from bipods when i hunt, and when i shoot at the range i rest under the forarm just like any other rifle, the 223 will make one raggid hole and the 22 hornet shoots under 1 inch groups, Im never going to be resting under the hinge in the field so i dont shoot them that way. Both also shoot great from the bipods, the only problem i have had is that the point of impact changes when i put the bipods on, with the 223 its always one inch up and about an inch left, the hornet usually shoots an inch or so low when i put the bipods on, a few clicks and they are ready for hunting.

rbergum95 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 30, 2007, 03:59:29 AM »

as for me i always shoot free recoil off the bench. sometimes the handi trigger pul can make that a bit difficult but with a trigger job and a little learning time it can work very well. as far as shooting off the bipod, the ones i have with bipods shoot pretty well with them but they will shoot better off sandbags. good luck with the rifle. listen to these guys on here, they are a smart group and will help you out with anything they can.

hannah · « **Reply #9 on:** September 30, 2007, 11:48:11 AM »

thanks for the info... i bought some flits, as well as a honing stone today...thia week i will flitz the chamber just for giggle, and hone all the trigger parts, also bought some screening material i will use as spacers on the handguard mount, as well as take off a little plastic to truly free float the barrel... ammo will be here monday also i filed the grooves so as my armalite 30mm mount will fit the current mount...i will also take that off and square up and remount also while gun is apart.... i think the gun will run quite well whwn all done... all indications were that it was super accurate...the S&B can only do so well... but the gun was'nt broken in either.... i expect it to perform well when it chooses a load it likes.... all in all i am happy with the rifle... the trigger is real bad, and i dont like having to take apart a new rifle but tis tis.... i'm goona select one of my 30mm scopes with long eye relief to shoot real loose as it seems most .223's prefer....

OR-E-Gun Bill · « **Reply #10 on:** September 30, 2007, 12:33:10 PM »

Charlie aka "hannah",

There is a wealth of knowledge here on the subject of Handi's. Enjoy the ride and keep us up to date on your progress.

Bill

hannah · « **Reply #11 on:** September 30, 2007, 02:03:04 PM »

thanks bill.... yes the handi rifle is new to me... and i should have called the gun ULTRA VARMINT as some have said to try pistol grip stock... it is the full ultra varmint model with fluted 24 barrel and pistol grip stock.... yes i will keep posting what i do and the end results... if i felt the gun out right i predict about a .5 moa rifle with a good load.......... simply because i had several shots that i knew were dead on and they blew out the little X at a hundred.... and thats before the work and before full break in and warm barrel.... so i know the gun will perform given the chance... mostly i tnink the rest will be up to me.... will be fun....

Tony Gable · « **Reply #12 on:** September 30, 2007, 05:18:38 PM »

Hannah,

I just read your post on holding your handi loosely when firing. Questions: Are you making sure your breathing is exactly the same every time? Deep breath, let half out and hold. Could it be possible that you could be flinching at the instant of firing and don't realize it? I hold mine snug and hold a half of a breath. Works out good for me.

Tony

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #13 on:** October 01, 2007, 03:50:56 PM »

You know it sounds like we are talking technique now. If that is the case then I do the same thing as Tony. The only thing I would add would be squeeze the trigger. If you pull the trigger the rifle will move before the shot goes off. There have been times on long range shots 400 yards plus that I hold my breath and just my heart beat shows up. I am not sure if you guy's know what I mean but I have the rifle pulled tight to my shoulder. Take a breath and I can sometimes see my heart beat through the scope. When this happens I squeeze the trigger in between beets. You have to feel the rhythm to pull it off. Dale

hannah · « **Reply #14 on:** October 02, 2007, 01:48:20 AM »

yes i was asking people their preferred hold ...loose ....meduim hold... tight ....etc...etc.... also difference in accuracy they were recieving from shooting on the hinge VS bi pod... i'm aware of pull through and my sight picture....

PartsMan · « **Reply #15 on:** October 02, 2007, 04:11:41 AM »

My 223 hb likes Winchester 55g ballistic silver tips best. $$$
It will shoot 1.5" to 2" with lots of other ammo.
I suggest you try some other rounds.

hannah · « **Reply #16 on:** October 02, 2007, 05:36:07 AM »

partsman i saw your group, and it was "excellent" what kind of hold were you using? and on hinge or bipod? also i am assuming yours is the older 1/12 twist yes? mine is 1/9 thanks for heads up..........

backstrap · « **Reply #17 on:** October 02, 2007, 08:22:03 AM »

I think your going to find out your handi dont like that heavey of a bullet ming likes 55gr and 50gr mine likes the 50gr hollow point the best shot so 62gr it was all over the target so i just stick to the lite grain bullets that 50HP puts a popen on coyotes and bobcats and as far as the hold i dont hold mine super tight just to the shoulder good and hold it right about where the forearm screw is shot a bobcat last year about 80 yards away freehanded , dont shot to bad i THINK any way

hannah · « **Reply #18 on:** October 02, 2007, 08:48:45 AM »

in order to make sense of your post you would have to state your barrel twist rate...

PartsMan · « **Reply #19 on:** October 02, 2007, 11:34:47 AM »

Quote from: hannah on October 02, 2007, 05:36:07 AM

partsman i saw your group, and it was "excellent" what kind of hold were you using? and on hinge or bipod? also i am assuming yours is the older 1/12 twist yes? mine is 1/9 thanks for heads up..........

That group was at 100yd on two sand bags.
One under the stock just behind the pistol grip.
The other just in front of the hing point but still on the fore arm.

No, mine is 1 in 9 too.
I have never tried anything heavier than 64g and they were cheap PMC.
Shot about 2".

backstrap · « **Reply #20 on:** October 02, 2007, 01:00:53 PM »

Heck i dont know the barrel twist of my rifle i bought the rifle back in 1989 so i dont know all i know is that it MINE dont like heavy bullets u never realy hear about people shooting that heavey of a bullet on this forum i know some try them to see how they shoot, i know u have to have a faster twist rifleing to shot a heaver bullet