Author Topic: New guy here - pre-buy full scale cannon questions... (Read 1715 times)

travis_towle · « **on:** September 30, 2007, 02:24:32 PM »

Hi guys,

New to the site, and found it after hours and hours of looking on the net for full size civil war style cannon’s. I have always had an interest in cannon’s and I am now looking at buying one. I would rather have a reproduction full size that can be shot. Looked over all the board and links posted and I think I have found a place I might buy from. I thought I would ask you guys before I toss several grand down.

I am looking at the Full Scale Mountain Howitzer with the 42 inch wheels because of price – I can not see tossing down more then 3,500.00 on this type of project.

My 1st choice would probably be:
www.missouricannonworks.com/ - because they are closer to Kansas where I live.

My 2nd choice would probably be:
www.theartillerymencannoncompany.com/

Both of these seem to stand out to me mostly because of price and the seamless barrels. Because I will be keeping my Ford Model T in the garage this cannon would have to sit outside all of the time on display in the yard, but when I wanted to I would like to take it out to the country to shoot. I am also interested in the possibility of using it down the line in any reenactments that I might stumble across. I have never done that sort of thing and probably never will – but you never know, I would rather have a cannon that can be used for that sort of thing rather then having someone tell me I wasted my money on that one and need to get this one, you know what I mean?

After looking over the net on this subject it looks like most reenactments ban the use of this cannon, and also any cannon with 42 inch wheels – is this true? If it is just over the wheel size would it matter if you put the larger wheels on this size carriage, or would that toss the authentic style out 100%? Also was this cannon ever really used, and did they really look exactly like this style I am looking at?

I have tried to call www.missouricannonworks.com/ and left a message but never got a call back, but will try again this week.

I would like to find a cannon that is just roughly put together that I would be able to finish the final fitting and painting myself to save a bit and to have something more then a just buy and look at type of deal – anyone know if either of these companies would do something like that? I did look over the possibility of making one from scratch, but my Model T demands more time then would allow for that full of a project.

I would not put out the idea of buying a used cannon like this, but finding one seems to be really hard. There has to be a used one laying around that I could restore for a little less then these new ones right?

Also is there anyone around Topeka, Kansas that has a cannon I could look at?

Travis E. Towle
Topeka, Kansas

785-357-1004

lance · « **Reply #1 on:** September 30, 2007, 03:00:28 PM »

Travis, welcome to the forum. i'll share a little info. i live in Virginia, know lot's of reenactors, some with full size guns. now people have their ways, but most of the folks i know won't even let you come out and play unless you have a cannon from Steen. and i'm sure you know what they cost. i'm not knocking anyone's cannons, just letting you know how some reenactors act about things. good luck with whatever you do.

travis_towle · « **Reply #2 on:** September 30, 2007, 03:17:25 PM »

Lance,

Thanks for the quick reply - Yea I looked at Steen Cannon & Ordnance Works and if that was my only choice on cannon’s I would have never even thought of buying a cannon, I would have never posted a question here or even found this site, I would have never even thought of ever attending a reenactment, and would rather have a nice used Ferrari Mondial for that kind of money I would have to spend to get one of their cannon’s.

It would just not make sense to spend that kind of cash on a cannon that will spend most of its life in my yard - un-insured and un-attended. I would never spend more then my Ford Model T for a cannon that sits outside.

I understand that quality matters, but price is a major factor here also. I am not in LOVE with the cannon’s, I just would like to get one. You never know, I might buy one and love the hobby, then want a Steen later on.

Travis E. Towle
Topeka, Kansas

785-357-1004

GGaskill · « **Reply #3 on:** September 30, 2007, 03:46:45 PM »

...a cannon that will spend most of its life in my yard - un-insured and un-attended.

Unless you live in the middle of nowhere and have no one passing your place, this sounds like you would eventually be buying someone else a cannon.

travis_towle · « **Reply #4 on:** September 30, 2007, 04:29:39 PM »

I collect old gas pumps too and have never had one of them stolen. I live in the central part of Topeka, Kansas right on the main street with traffic looking at my house 24 hours a day.

I would however (just like I do with the gas pumps) be pouring a concrete pad 4 feet deep with concrete 8 inch tubes spidering out in the base forming an X pattern underground, for the wheels and tail of the cannon, where it would be bolted to the concrete and then wired underground to the alarm system in my garage hooked to the panic trip. Once the cannon is moved or the U bolts cut holding the wheels down the alarm would sound. Top that off with the CCTV camera system recording all this to my computer as I type. If they get past that they would have to deal with me and a 1911 (seeing I only work 3-4 days a month) and don’t sleep at night that is a high risk theft job. I don’t think I will have a problem with this.

Buy why risk it right? That’s just another reason why I only want to spend NO more then $3,500.00 on a cannon.

Any help on this subject is appreciated.

Travis E. Towle
Topeka, Kansas

lance · « **Reply #5 on:** September 30, 2007, 05:40:56 PM »

Travis, i wasn't pushing high dollar guns on you. in your first post you mentioned that you didn't want to buy a cannon that you could not use for reenactments. i was just letting you know what to expect from folks.some will let you come out and play, others won't.that's all......... anyway, you can always do your own reenactments, put on living history events, talk to tourists about your cannon, etc...... i think you'll be happy with either of the two cannons you picked out. if you get one, put some pictures on here sometime. ya know us guys like to see pics.............

Double D · « **Reply #6 on:** September 30, 2007, 06:48:44 PM »

Your cannon isn't going to last very long stored out in the weather. You will see weather damage with in the first year.

Fluxion · « **Reply #7 on:** October 01, 2007, 03:24:17 AM »

Wow! Now there is three of us on here that live in Topeka!

civilcannon · « **Reply #8 on:** October 01, 2007, 06:19:38 AM »

New guy:

If you are interested in participating in reenactments you might attend a few events and talk to the artillerymen they can advise you of what is allowed and what is not . Some have a 57" wheel size requirement. others do not. Missouri has many Civil War events and is not to far away. You also want to work with a group that is affiliated with the National Civil War Artillery Association. We have a training school every 2 years on the 6 positions of the piece as well as gunner. This training if for safety, proper operation and the special safety training with infantry and cav. just 100 yards to the front of your piece.

I would suggest contacting:

Chairman, James Newkirk
1343 ESTHER
SCOTTVILLE MI. 49454
(231) 757 3058

If you attend a few events you might start picking up some uniform items at a minimum a period shirt, sky blue pants and forrage or slouch hat. black or dark shoes are sometimes permitted until you get period foot ware. If you have the proper clothing you may be invited to observe an artillery crew and after some training be allowed to join in. Many crews are short people especially at the smaller events

civilcannon · « **Reply #9 on:** October 01, 2007, 09:20:26 AM »

Travis: You can also get a lot of information from the following: http://www.cwartillery.org/artillery.html
Also look up Camp ChaseGazettet and get a subscription they have a web site a good source for reenactments nation wide and a source for units and clothing and equipment

Civilcannon

threepdr · « **Reply #10 on:** October 03, 2007, 04:33:03 AM »

Travis,

I'll echo what others have mentioned. Before you expect to take this to a reenactment. Go to a few and talk to the artillerymen. Most of the larger quality event do not even allow Mountain Howitzers as they saw so little use during the War.

I suspect both of these makers are using Hern Iron Works barrels. You can buy those direct from the maker if you choose to build your own carriage.

The carriages and especially the wheels from both of these makers do not appear to conform to origininal specifications. (another thing that would preclude its use at main stream reenactments). If you are looking strictly for a shooter, then these problems will not be an issue, just make sure the quality of the wheels and hardware would not preclude firing live rounds!

Stored outdoors, your carriage willl have about a 3-5 year life span before it will be potentially unsafe to fire.

travis_towle · « **Reply #11 on:** October 04, 2007, 03:07:33 PM »

Thanks for the info guys - very helpful so far!!!

If I decided to make my own cannon carriage and buy a Napoleon barrel, and the large wheels where can I find the metal parts and the best plans?

Travis E. Towle
Topeka, Kansas

785-357-1004

lance · « **Reply #12 on:** October 04, 2007, 03:33:45 PM »

Napoleon!!! now you're talking Travis........... i know you're new here, just wondering if you checked the top of this page: where to find cannons and supplies...........and how to make..................... going to put any pics of your build on here for us to look at? hope so.

travis_towle · « **Reply #13 on:** October 04, 2007, 03:39:12 PM »

Yes - I have looked over the links extensively over the last several months. I like the bigger cannon's but the price turned me away FA$T - but if I can rebuild 4 1926 model T hickory wood wheels and get them runnng within 1/16th true then I can build a cannon carrige for a large cannon!

I was not able to find any suppliers for carriage hardware - except for one site that stated they do not "sell parts" only their full line cannon's. There are about 3 dierent places to buy plans but I need to know who has the best plans / blueprints for these. Also where can I find that large of white oak beams?

Travis E. Towle
Topeka, Kansas

785-357-004

Rickk · « **Reply #14 on:** October 04, 2007, 03:51:24 PM »

For oak, check out smaller local sawmills. The guy down the street from me gives me awesome deals on oak cuz he likes the idea of me using it to build cannons with. I pay about a buck a board foot for green oak, cut to any size I want. I was able to dry 3 inch oak this spring in about 2 months by putting it in a dry place that the sun indirectly warmed. In the winter that process would probably take longer.

The nice thing about dealing with a saw mill is that you can get it cut to the size you want, so you arn't paying for as much scrap. Of course, it will do wierd things as it dries, so you still want to oversize it a bit and do the final cutting after it is dry.

Hardware? A possibility is to make your own. A Mig Welder and an oxy propane torch will give you all sorts of fun. You also get the satisfaction of knowing that you made the pieces yourself.

The hardware of the Carronade I just finished is 100% mine. I used lots of stainless steel to help it survive the elements. I learned a heck of a lot during the fabrication process. There were many sleepless nights trying to work out details in my head. The nice part about all that lost sleep is that I know how to do it now... I plan on making it a twin brother this winter, and the second time around it will be cake to pull off

Rick

lance · « **Reply #15 on:** October 04, 2007, 04:02:26 PM »

Travis, i can get you all the white oak you want, in any size.I used to own a couple saw mills, anyway, still have friends in the biz, even have kilns........shipping from Virginia might hurt? you might could google wood suppliers, saw mills close to you. if you can't find any white oak big enough for a carriage, let me know. i can get it, if ya think i'll rob ya, you can talk direct to my guys, they can rob ya

anyway, it's an offer for help on the wood..............i don't use plans or blueprints, so others will have to advise you on them.

lance · « **Reply #16 on:** October 04, 2007, 04:21:11 PM »

I can "see" it coming.........Fluxion, has a wood shop in your town

GGaskill · « **Reply #17 on:** October 04, 2007, 04:27:41 PM »

Antique Ordnance Publishers (AOP) is the best source of drawings and photos. Order No. 20, Civil War 12 Pdr NAPOLEON, Model 1857 on No. 2 Carriage. Well worth the minimal expense.

Double D · « **Reply #18 on:** October 04, 2007, 05:19:23 PM »

Seems to me that several of those websites list carriage hardware if you go deep inside there websites. With the carriage plans from AOP is the hardware plans. Make you own or contact the board sponsors and see what they can do for you .

Double D · « **Reply #19 on:** October 04, 2007, 10:30:24 PM »

I just checked 5 out of the first 6 on the resource list and four of them offer parts.

civilcannon · « **Reply #20 on:** October 05, 2007, 05:25:49 AM »

Travis: I built the carriage for my 6 pound-er using a combination of parts that I made and parts from Paulsen Brothers .

For a 12 pound Napoleon you want the #2 carriage parts.

Thanks: Civilcannon

civilcannon · « **Reply #21 on:** October 05, 2007, 05:44:29 AM »

Travis: The web site for Paulsen Bros is http://www.pbocorp.biz/ then click on parts on the left side of the Page

Thanks: Civilcannon