Author Topic: I think I've settled on a Smith and Wesson 1911 (Is this a good choice?) (Read 1763 times)

skarke · « **on:** January 24, 2010, 11:36:12 AM »

PROBLEM.

I have a Taurus that has been utterly reliable, but not quite as accurate as I am beginning to require. I have shot plates for a while now, and have put several thousand rounds through the Taurus. It ran well right out of the box, and only jams when it is really, really dirty. I've probably had less than 1 jam per thousand rounds, and if it is even sort of clean, it never jams.

That is the good, now here is the bad.....Taurus customer service truly stinks. Trying to get an adjustable sight is IMPOSSIBLE!!!! Plus, the CS rep at Taurus has absolutely no idea what she is doing. She is very nice, but utterly incompetent.

Most Taurus's shoot low, including mine, if you aren't shooting howitzer loads. This exacerbates the no adjustable sight problem, because who wants to shoot wrist breakers at plates anyway.

So, I've read almost everything you guys have written over the recent past. Plus, I've handled lots of samples by the common manufacturers, and best I can tell, that Smith and Wesson is pretty fine.

Gander has the adjustable sight stainless one for about 9 bills. The Taurus will sell for $550. I'm about to "pull the trigger".

Am I messing up?

Joshua M. Smith · « **Reply #1 on:** January 24, 2010, 12:16:53 PM »

Hello,

I would do it, but I think that's just a tad expensive for the S&W. Additionally, unless they've changed things, I believe I remember the S&W having an external extractor - not a good thing on a 1911 in most cases.

Josh

williamlayton · « **Reply #2 on:** January 24, 2010, 11:11:38 PM »

Hey Skarke---have you talked with Vandenberg in Clear Lake--he can put any sight you want on that Taurus for less than the price of a new one------Now new ones ARE fun.
Blessings

Bigeasy · « **Reply #3 on:** January 24, 2010, 11:50:25 PM »

If the sights are your only issue with your .45, I would change them; not too expensive. If you are looking for a reason to buy a new gun, that's cool too.. I like Kimbers, but then I have never shot a S&W 1911. Kimber target models with adjustable sights start at under $1000. R/E the external extractor issue - Kimber went to the external extractor, but has since returned to the regular 1911 style. Don't know the specifics, but there were issues with the external style.

Larry

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #4 on:** February 01, 2010, 02:50:34 AM »

If possible, always buy the better gun. If you don't, you have it in your mind when you shoot the cheaper one.

S&W reviews stated their 1911's were utterly reliable, and would feed empty cases from the clip. I bought a 5" stainless and found that to be true. Extremely tight groups. However, mine was a target model with square adjustable sights, and was uncomfortable to carry. Ended up trading it for a Kimber Pro Carry, with rounded night sights. It's even more accurate than the Smith, but it did FTF during the break-in period, which Kimber says is about 500 rounds.

gray-wolf · « **Reply #5 on:** February 01, 2010, 08:34:54 AM »

Break ins make me laugh--500 rounds yea about $150.00 bucks worth of ammo to see if the pistol is worth keeping. I know--I know , I have been through the same thing. Why can't we get a pistol
out of the box that you can put in a holster and know it was made right. Instead we have to spend money on ammo to see if the gun Company had a good day at work.
Just a rant I had to let out.

williamlayton · « **Reply #6 on:** February 01, 2010, 09:35:07 AM »

Get a Sig.
I put about 500 miles on a new car before i take it out of town. Have you ever had a car that had a malfunction---I did and it was a satrter.
Some prefer certain ammom.
My PPK wouldn't digest HP's for over 500 rounds.
I cannot explain Murphy or Mechanical things.
Blessings

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #7 on:** February 01, 2010, 10:57:06 AM »

the smiths ive shot have been wonderful guns. Very accurate and reliable. the external extractor should scare you. Kimber had problems with theres but smiths work.

Savage · « **Reply #8 on:** February 01, 2010, 12:29:25 PM »

If the sights are the only issue, spend a hundred bucks and put an adjustable rear sight on the Taurus. If yours is shooting low, a few strokes of a file on the front sight should bring it up to POA with your favorite load. Unless prices have reallly gone up, the Smith sounds a bit high.
Savage

skarke · « **Reply #9 on:** February 01, 2010, 05:59:10 PM »

Well, I handled theSmith, and it is a very nice gun. That said, I think that I've come back around to a Kimber. It is a littlemore, but I think that the difference might be worth it. If the Smith didn't have the external extractor (which functions leautifully, but ruins the lines of the gun), it'd be fine.

The big deal seems to be that the Kimbers have better resale value, in addition to them being pretty darn nice.

I feel like my wife when we are going out, "the red or the black?" They both look great, it is just tough to make a decision.

Savage · « **Reply #10 on:** February 02, 2010, 02:02:28 AM »

Sharke,
I'm a fan of Kimbers! If the price were right, I'd own a S&W 1911 as well. Just hate to see you trade off a gun to get a gun. You're unlikely to find a solid, serviceable 1911 like the Taurus you currently own for anywhere near the money you have in yours. But,-----sometimes finances dictate course of action. Good luck!
Savage

jhm · « **Reply #11 on:** February 02, 2010, 03:05:31 AM »

i have the S&W Scandium 1911 PD and havent had any problems with the function and accuracy, I dont carry it as much as I should NO real reason just dont carry it, as light as it is I should but it is one of those handguns you just had to have until you get it and you still go back to your favorite well it is a Nice choice if you are looking for a new 1911. Jim

skarke · « **Reply #12 on:** February 02, 2010, 03:48:42 AM »

My issue with the taurus is that it requires a modification to accept an adjustable sight. Another issue, not huge, but important, is that this particular sample requires that the sights be about 3/16" out of alignment with the slide at windage zero. Seems like a qc issue to me. It is accurate this way, which is how it came from the factory, but shoots so low that you have to cover the target with the front blade to get a center shot. The sights are the traditional 3 dot arrangement, so even filing the front sight still doesn't align the dots.

The Taurus has functioned flawlessly. My issue is with QC and CS. If Kimber produced a 1911, for instance, that required the sights to mis-align with the slide to be on target, and shot 3 inches low, I'm pretty confident that it would have never left the factory.

If the darn thing just shot straight, I'd be thrilled. It shoots tiny groups, and works like a champ. My original review on this gun was excellent. Fit and finish are good, generally nice. It is the latter issues that have cooled my enthusiasm.

Bigeasy · « **Reply #13 on:** February 02, 2010, 08:31:57 AM »

SKARKE-

Is the Taurus the only 1911 you have? It could be the way you are gripping the gun / pulling the trigger that accounts for the grouping to the left. I have the same problem with single action revolvers. Most all my adj. sight models have their rear sights adjusted to the right of center for me to hit center. Its just the way I hold the gun I guess. Don't have this problem with double actions of semi's.

A good set of adjust. sights shouldn't run much over 100 bucks for your Taurus. If you don't feel comfortable doing it, anyone who calls himself a gunsmith could do a little file work to fit the rear sight in the dovetail, as well as stake the front sight for little $. I know its nice to think that fixed sight guns are zeroed in at the factory, but I have found that is often not the case, even from well respected makers. If the Taurus is otherwise functioning properly for you, I would replace the sights and keep it. Maybe look for a Kimber Ultra Carry 3 inch down the road as a companion carry piece to the full size Taurus.

Larry

skarke · « **Reply #14 on:** February 02, 2010, 09:33:22 AM »

Thanks Larry,

No, it isn't my grip, I print the same way with both hands. The gun came from the factory sighted in, I've never touched the sights (with the obvious exception that it shoots low). In fact, the front sight is set about a sixteenth over the toward the right (factory set) just so the rear sight doesn't have to be set partially off the slide.

I never touched the sights, and like I said, it doesn't pattern differently on either hand. This is a plate gun primarily, though it is likely going to see a little practical pistol in the future.

You guys are great, thanks.

Savage · « **Reply #15 on:** February 02, 2010, 10:38:24 AM »

The Taurus has the Heine (sp) sight cut. Easy to install an adjustable, even with a hammer and punch if necessary. Minor fitting easily done with a jeweler's file-----maybe. Ahhh, dot sights! Absolutely hate dot sights! Ok for rough alignment for using night sights, but not for precision shots. First thing I do with those is paint the rear dots black and the front blade orange. I always sight my guns in to hit at the top of the front blade. It's extremely difficult to get the consistent sight picture needed for fine work using the white dots for refference. Before you trade your pistol, or replace the sights, try benching it with a good stable rest, and using the top of the front sight and the notch in the rear for aiming. Don't know if it'll help your problem, but that's the way notch and post sights were designed to be used. Good shooting!
Savage

skarke · « **Reply #16 on:** February 02, 2010, 11:11:59 AM »

Thanks savage. A buddy has that Caldwell ransom copy. Gonna bench it just for fun. Unfortunately, the heinie sights are non standard heinie. Like so many manufacturers, Taurus has a"proprietary" dovetail.

The big issue is resale. It is counterintuitive, but the second I fit the new sight, which costs me $100, on that slide, I've reduced the resale by $100, netting me a $200 loss in value.

For those 2 bills, with another two and selling the taurus, I could have a Kimber Gold Match in pretty good shape, which would last me forever with springs and bumpers.

Savage · « **Reply #17 on:** February 02, 2010, 02:51:33 PM »

I do like the Gold Match!

Savage

Bigeasy · « **Reply #18 on:** February 02, 2010, 03:57:14 PM »

Sell It. A big part of handgun ownership is having exactly what you want. If you are always, in the back of your mind, going to be less then 100% satisfied with your Taurus, then you will never be happy with it. Aint worth the loss of sleep - Buy exactly what you wanted, from the start, and smile all the way home.

Larry

Flint · « **Reply #19 on:** February 02, 2010, 05:21:05 PM »

If the front sight is offset to the right, the pistol is bound to shoot to the left... Is that where it's shooting? If it's a dovetail front sight, center it and see where it shoots.

williamlayton · « **Reply #20 on:** February 02, 2010, 10:50:34 PM »

If it were anything but a Taurus---is my prejudice showing

--I woul suggest keeping it and buying another---since it is and I like your choice, I don't think you will ever regret selling the taurus.
Lets do get together sometimes.
Blessings

skarke · « **Reply #21 on:** February 03, 2010, 09:47:27 AM »

Thanks flint. Not, it shoots dead on with the front sight right and the rear sight way left. Hmmmm

I'd say that there is something in the innards that is awry.

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #22 on:** February 27, 2010, 05:56:58 PM »

You can't do better than a Smith for accuracy and reliability, IMO. I bought a new one in stainless with target sights. It fed everything I put through it, and accuracy was superb. But it was a heavy thing, and the target sights were a bear to draw from concealed carry. I traded for a Kimber and never looked back. I think with all the variations and models available today, a buyer should ask himself before he spends the cash, just what it is he wants the weapon to do, and then buy according to his answer.

tomray · « **Reply #23 on:** February 28, 2010, 10:40:14 AM »

Sharke,
If I understand your problem.........its the lack of Adj sights to get you on "minute of Plate" ??.......Or, if your front and rear sights are miss aligned from the factory, its time to move them and find out why......Lots of guns are shipped out to the market with sights way out of wack....

I don't own a Taurus...But I've looked at them, and they look like good guns wit a lot of features for the $$......Strictly OLDER, series 70 and earlier hand built Colts in this house.

Re: Dumping the Taurus, I think you're ready to toss out the Baby with the Bath water!
Find a good 'Smith, and have him check out your slide and barrel fit for symmetry and if that looks good, have a low mount Champion or Bomar style rear sight added to your Taurus slide. If the symmetry is visibly off, return the gun to Taurus and request a correction!
If your jamming and stove piping when the gun is dirty, that tells me your gun is "Target Tight", and thats a good thing for a continuing build.
1911's are like Kleenex there isn't much difference between the individual parts from one gun to another........it's all in how the individual parts relate to one another in the one gun.........Yeah, I know, the Marketeers will all tell you their parts are better.........Don't believe it!.......It's how the parts are fitted!!...The finish on all after market parts is usually mediocre.......they ALL need to be polished and refinished.......as received is just trash.......

Save your money........S&W isn't the answer for you yet.......... that's just throwing money at your problem.......
Build on what you have, and I think you'll be successful.......A GOOD 'smith is "everything" in getting a Plate Gun, or any Race Gun to respond to your needs!....... Remember, even the "PC" S&W's are production line guns, at alot of $$$$, and as such, S&W is looking closely at the profit margin...........I wouldn't want to pay those dollars for the same gun the guy on the line next to me is shooting!
The Taurus is a good base,to build a great gun on.........( And I don't own a Taurus!)

Tom
NRA LIFE

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #24 on:** March 01, 2010, 01:55:40 AM »

ive got a gold match and its a wonderful gun. that been said the external extractors on the smiths are nothing to worry about. Ive yet to hear of one that didnt work out of the box. Even my most carried gun is a dreaded kimber with an external extractor. When i first got it it was a bit troublesome but after one trip to kimber it has gone throught at least 20000 rounds and hasnt missed a beat. I heard everyone was sending them back again and kimber was replacing them with internal extractor setups. I thought about it but couldnt do it as mine is just to darned reliable as it is. No telling what it would be like after the conversion.

Savage · « **Reply #25 on:** March 01, 2010, 02:04:00 AM »

The external extractor wouldn't be a showstopper for me. Just about every other auto loader on the planet uses it.
Savage

skarke · « **Reply #26 on:** March 01, 2010, 02:11:21 AM »

Thanks Guys,

Unfortuntely, current economic times have basically left me with what I have for the forseeable future. Our firm's current business model just doesn't work anymore, I see us on the brink as a country, and me unemployed soon. Thank God I have a strong back and good hands, because professional jobs are going, going, gone. I won't take charity though, and if it comes to it, I can do just about anything. I, and my cardio-vascular system could use a few hours on a post hole digger.

That said, if things turn around, I'm leaning toward a Kimber. The Smith shoots great, but the external extractor is kind of ugly. It seems that used Kimbers sell for about what people pay for them, which is another plus for Kimber to me.

Lloyd, William, and the rest of you guys are great. I appreciate all of your help.

williamlayton · « **Reply #27 on:** March 01, 2010, 03:22:57 AM »

Luck has nothing to do with blessings.
Blessings

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #28 on:** March 15, 2010, 04:26:38 PM »

You cannot go wrong with a Smith. I bought a new Smith target 1911, all stainless. As advertise, it would feed empty cases. But I didn't keep it long enough to really test it. I sold it because of the sharp lines that made it difficult to draw from concealment. My opinion of Taurus is low. The company is very forward thinking, coming up with models to match anything available from other companies, but they are still a cheap, foreign product. If I didn't have the funds to buy a Smith instead of a Taurus, I'd wait until I did.