A combination gun may be more useful,to me, than a drilling

[pastorp]

I was just on the Krieghoff website. What a beautiful combo gun they build. Wonder what one would cost set up with a scope. Byron

[Drilling Man]

A combination gun may be more useful than a drilling

  How so?

  DM

[pastorp]

DM, I know it won't do as many things as a drilling. But what a delightfully slim easy carrying gun. Most combo guns I've seen were very plain. That Kriegoff was a beauty.

Did not mean to offend with my title line. Byron

[dougk]

A combination gun may be more useful than a drilling

  How so?

  DM

I prefer combo guns as they fit my application well.  Also, with the Valmet QD Scope Mount I can easily have a 12 ga single shot for birds.

[mbyoh]

You know, I think I agree.  I used to think a drilling was the ultimate, and it may very well be if you can find that perfect, but rare, cartridge/gauge combination.  I thought for a while that a Three-Barrel or Hollenbeck drilling in 12 X 12 or 16 X 16, with a good old American cartridge like 32-20, 44-40, 25-35, 22 hi-power would be perfect, but after actually handling one, I found them heavy and bulky, not the light and graceful style of the German guns.  I eventually bought a pre-war German drilling(9.32X72 X 16 X 16) and it was a beautiful gun, but I didn't really like the cartridge, even though I reloaded it, nor the short 16 gauge chambers.  The Greener side safety also frustrated me, both because I would forget about it and try to slide the tang slide as the safety, but you also have to hold the gun differently for snap shooting, such as with grouse, when using the Greener safety.  I flushed two grouse out of a tree recently and instinctively went to the tang safety ( didn't get either grouse).   

I eventually traded the drilling for a Simson/Suhl SXS cape gun in 16 ga X 25-35.  It's light and petite, carries and handles well, and has a 2 3/4" chamber. The safety is on the tang like a an American double and I love the four flip-up sights.  I'm excited to use this gun this Turkey season.

I just handled a 1935-made Kreighoff O/U cape gun in 16ga X 6.5X55mm.  BEAUTIFUL GUN.  Weighs about 5 1/2lb., Short 22" barrels, beautiful engraving.  I would probably trade my Simson for it, but the fellow isn't into a trade right now.  If I can scrape up the cash, I would just buy it, which would be a smarter move.  Bout the most perfect combo I ever saw.

Mike

[Drilling Man]

  I'm not offended at all...

  BUT, i own now both, and have used and owned numerous others over the years.  I'd easily take my drilling over any combo i've ever seen.  Most folks have only seen bigger drillings and think they all are "tanks".... that's not true at all...

I prefer combo guns as they fit my application well.  Also, with the Valmet QD Scope Mount I can easily have a 12 ga single shot for birds.

  Doug,

  My scope and mount on my drilling is QD, and it weighs less than yours.  I don't see a Valmet QD having any advantage over a claw mount.. (except purchase price)

  I went from a 412 to a drilling, so i'm trying to think of for "hunting use", what my 412 can do that my drilling can't do just as well or better...

  I'm going to "respectfully" say, that for 99.9% it's really about money, and not the gun...

  You can make some super light combo's, but i've handles several drillings that are under 7 pounds, and that makes a nice hunting weight gun...

  DM

[pastorp]

Sadly, I don't live where I can handle very many guns of this type. Drilling or combo. I do know when I started hunting I carried everything but the kitchen sink. Now days I'm a minimalist. If the gun is too big and heavy I'll leave it home.

If I found a drilling with the right combination of balance and weight, in a gague and caliber I like That would be my first choice. But a combo could be very sweet handling. Don't want either if it handles like a fence post, or needs wheels. Regards, Byron

[pastorp]

mbyoh, What would you expect to pay for a good cape gun. I found 2 simsons online in the high 3,000- low 4,000$ range. I like the idea of a 16ga + a 25cal barrel. A 25/35 ackly imp. would be too much to hope for I suppose. Regards, Byron

[Drilling Man]

Sadly, I don't live where I can handle very many guns of this type. Drilling or combo. I do know when I started hunting I carried everything but the kitchen sink. Now days I'm a minimalist. If the gun is too big and heavy I'll leave it home.
 
If I found a drilling with the right combination of balance and weight, in a gague and caliber I like That would be my first choice. But a combo could be very sweet handling. Don't want either if it handles like a fence post, or needs wheels. Regards, Byron 

  You know, i spent 25 years of my life hunting all over Alaska...  I always hated to carry a heavy gun, and many times i just hunted with a S&W M-29 for just that reason.  I never had a lot of money, so i moved up in steps always looking for the "next one" that would get me closer to what i "thought" i really needed.
 
  What normally happens is, you start out with cheaper guns.  These are heavy, mostly crude, and usually not regulated well...  Then you finally get to a better combo gun like the Valmet 412.  It's quite well made and rugged work horse.  It has a really good QD scope mount, and double triggers...  You can regulate the bbls, and also add other bbls...
 
  I hunted with my 412 for several years and my complaint was and still is....  it's on the heavy side for "me".  It's fine for still hunting or when you can use an ATV or horse, but i didn't like having to carry it on long hunting trips where i'd be walking every day for a week or two straight....  So, i was still looking for that lighter gun, and i really wanted the extra bbl a drilling has.

  "Finally" i found a drilling i could afford and could be rebuilt to what i wanted a hunting gun to be.  Also the weight was right, at just under 7 pounds!  So i bought it, and i can say i'd never be willing to trade it for any combo gun...  I just really really like that "extra" bbl to put an Krieghoff insert bbl in!!

  I've used that low noise insert for camp meat many times, as i've always camped right where i hunt.  I mean, why put a camp where you still have to walk to your hunting spot?  I always put my tent right "in" the hunting area, and then kept the noise down all the while i was there....  It's not so hard to do when hunting alone or with one other person...

  Sorry for getting so long with this answer!

  DM

  BTW, i know a guy that has a veerling that only weighs 6-3/4 pounds!  It's the only gun i've ever seen that i liked as much as my drilling....

[pastorp]

DM, Whats a veerling? How much would you expect a new Kreigoff drilling to weigh, with scope. Byron

[Drilling Man]

DM, Whats a veerling? How much would you expect a new Kreigoff drilling to weigh, with scope. Byron

  I guess it would help if i spelled it RIGHT! ha ha ha  ------------> "Vierling".   Check this out for some info..  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combination_gun#Vierlings_and_funflings

  As for weight:  You will have to check and see what is made today to find that out.  Here's some info though.  These days the 20ga. and 16ga. are built on the same frame, and the 16's are almost always lighter.  The 12ga. is built on a bigger and heavier frame and are always heavier!  12ga. drillings have always been bigger and heavier, and that's a big part of the reason most folks think drillings are heavy.

  Your not going to buy even a "light" drilling that's as "light" as a light combo gun, but this thread started out saying "A combination gun may be more useful than a drilling", and that's where i came on board.  I think you should change it from "more useful" to "lighter"..   "IF"  that's what you were alluding to...

  In my mind, combo's can be lighter, and usally are cheaper, (given the same grade) but i haven't ever found them more "useful"...

  "If" i had 10K to spend, i'd stop looking for the "perfect" drilling, but i would start out with something close and go from there.  Things like claw mounts and scopes can be added later.  Insert bbls can be added later... Even tightening up and refinishing can be added, but you have to start with something decent to begin with.

  I still like the Krieghoff Semper, and they are around "used" for around 4K.  Doug found a really nice one for about that and it looked to be a real keeper to me!  I'd just make sure it didn't have short chambers, they are a pain...  In 8mm i'd want it to be an "S" bbl, as i wouldn't want to have to chase .318" bullets all the time...  In 16ga. most will weight 7 pounds or less, and there were lots of them made.

  If it doesn't have a "perfect" finish, or has a small dent in the shot bbls, just get it cheaper and have it fixed.  That's what i did with mine, as it looked to be in poor shape when i got it.

  I would NOT buy one that has been altered or looks to have been repaired by a blacksmith!  Take your time, the one for you is out there!!

  DM

[pastorp]

I didn't know it was spelled wrong, I just didn't know what it was. The picture explained it. Wow lots of barrels. Byron

[dougk]

By nature of having a third barrel the Drilling would be more useful.  I have gone the combo gun route for two main reasons.  Cost a Drilling is going to start at $2500. And I shoot shotguns left handed and rifles either hand but my preference is right handed, most Drillings are designed for right handed shooters.

The Sempert Krieghoff DrillingMan references was basically sold when I contacted the seller I was a week late, at the time that was the only Drilling I felt was fairly priced.

Doug

[Drilling Man]

  Hey Doug,

  I want to add here, i shoot left handed, and every drilling i've owned or shot i shot left handed.

  DM

[pastorp]

DM, Your shooting left handed brings up other questions in my mind. Did you move the check piece to the right side when you had the new stock made? How about cast?

Your comment about the difference being largely about money is a valid one I believe. I have bought and sold or traded guns my entire life, and had quite and accumulation of guns when this all started. I have sold quite a few guns and started a savings account to put the money in. None of this money came from any other source, its all gun money.

The question I've been struggling with is can I actually spend it all on one gun? 

Guess I'll know when the moment of truth comes. Time to write out the check. Byron

[Drilling Man]

  When i bought my old drilling the stock was broken off it and in 5 pieces, with more pieces missing.  I made the missing pieces, and put it all back together.  I then shot it for some time, (repairing it often) adding and taking away thin padding that i had duct taped onto the comb.  Once i got it where i wanted it, that was the pattern for the new stock.  I changed nothing else...

  I don't like or want a cheek piece, you don't need one and all they do is add weight.

  I'd take one or two "high quality" guns that are REALLY what i want, over a dozen or two average guns EVERY time!

  DM

[mbyoh]

Byron,

I picked up my Simson/Suhl Cape gun in 16ga X 25-35 for about $2,000.00  ( actually a trade for my drilling).  It shows normal wear but no abuse.  It is tight and shoots excellently.  The fellow I bought it from has a Kreighoff O/U cape gun in 16ga # 6.5 X 55.  The engraving is beautiful and it weighs less than 6lb.  It was made in 1935.  He's asking $2,400.00 for it.  I'd love to acquire it but money is a bit tight presently.  I think I'd trade the Simson for it if I could.  Really like to have them both.

Mike

[pastorp]

Mike, Those prices sound reasonable enough. The 6.5X55 sure is a great cartridge. I see your in Pennsylvania there must be more drillings and cape guns on the east coast. I have a very good friend that has been living in Maine and I've visited him twice, due for another visit next fall. Have not looked there for drillings but did notice a lot of old double shotguns, which I love.

Internet prices must be higher.

Byron

[pastorp]

Oh buy the way my wife is doing better. They have the bleeding ulcer taken care of, at least for now. I'll leave in and hour and a half on the ferry to pick her up from the hospital.

Thanks for all the encouraging words, Byron

[dougk]

 
  I'd take one or two "high quality" guns that are REALLY what i want, over a dozen or two average guns EVERY time!

  DM

If I could only have one gun this would be it http://www.hallowellco.com/franz_sodia%20vierling.htm Now who has $32k laying around that I can have? 

[dougk]

Oh buy the way my wife is doing better. They have the bleeding ulcer taken care of, at least for now. I'll leave in and hour and a half on the ferry to pick her up from the hospital.

Thanks for all the encouraging words, Byron

Byron
Glad your wife is doing better.
Doug