"Snake Shot" for CCW?

[jrdudas]

I did a search but didn't find much information on using "snake shot" in your concealed carry weapon.  Do many folks do this, and if so is this an effective option?  Is snake shot available in most handgun calibers?  I also see that there is at least one maker (Taurus) who has a .410/45 pistol.  The photos of that pistol look like it is too big for CCW, but I can imagine that it has significant stopping power at short distances when using .410 shells.  There are also Derringer style guns available in this caliber, but I can imagine that the recoil is tremendous. What are the pros and cons of using snake shot for CCW?

Thanks in advance for your responses,

JR
 

[rockbilly]

Why would you want to pepper a perp with #8 shot?  If it ever reached the point that I have to use a firearm to defend my family, or myself, I want a weapon that will stop the perp,  not spray them with something that may be a distraction and anger them.  In my opinion using "Snake Shot" for CCW is totally foolish, if you HAVE to use the gun, do it with bad intentions, remember, if it is determined to be a justified shooting, a dead man can not testify against you in a Court of law, and historically the liability for killing someone is far less that that of injuring someone.

[SHOOTALL]

check the box it says snake shot not people shot . HUM !
the derringer i have experience with , it is best used with BUCK SHOT and then at contact to a few feet at best ( note to the wise a derringer is not the best primary weapon ) .As far as kick its not that bad with shot gun shells .
OK bet you are wondering how i have experience if its not my first choice , well it makes a fine snake gun ! at one time i switched ammo in my 38 to snake shot , now i don't i can have both and the 410 has more shot !
this is an opinion , it will piss half the people reading this off but here goes - bird shot as a defense choice because it will not go thru. sheetrock . Now my fist will go thru. sheetrock ! but so far i have not been able to punch thru. someones chest ! so why use a load that can't punch thru. to start with ?
the people that i have known who have been in a social encounter with a gun and those i have read about have never claimed to have had to powerful a gun ! but often they say they had wished for a bigger one !

[jimster]

I totally agree with Rockbilly. Your only only yo expose your handgun for one reason, and that is to terminate the threat.  Nobody wants trouble at all, but when it's over you want one story, yours. The last thing you need is a criminal's story to go against yours.  If your the only one left standing with no witnesses, your in much better shape.  If you use snake shot, an armed person can shoot back at you too after you sting him, you don't need bullets coming at you after you make a hit either. 

[KN]

Would you trust snake shot on an angry pit bull? You only have one reason to pull your weapon on some one. To stop a "LETHAL" threat. Shoot to wound is a loosing attitude in a fight for your life.   KN

[jsoukup]

Would you trust snake shot on an angry pit bull? You only have one reason to pull your weapon on some one. To stop a "LETHAL" threat. Shoot to wound is a loosing attitude in a fight for your life.   KN

Very true. However I knew a guy who used a blowgun to put a wire dart in the ass of a guy siphoning gas out of his dune buggy. He cleared the 6 foot fence in one leap. I could see a 22 with ratshot fulfilling the same purpose. Or maybe I just have an evil sense of humor.

[SHOOTALL]

NOT HUMOR / JUSTICE !

[Mikey]

Birdshot, ratshot  or snakeshot is an up close and personal choice, and a bad one at that.  I have seen 22 birdshot used on people and it is little more than painful, and only when there is no clothing to prevent it to penetrate into the skin and then only at point blank range.  It does not penetrate into the muscle of a human being, it does not stop a charging dog, it does not stop a charging human whether drugged up or not and your chances of getting an eyeball shot (the only effective use of birdshot on humans) are too slim to even consider carrying shot in a ccw for defense. 

Why do you think they call it birdshot,  rat shot or snake shot - it's meant for birds or rats or mice or the like, and snakes, and it rarely kills them but may only drive them off. 

My suggestion is that if you have a sidearm that can fire a birdshot/ratshot load, then carry a manstopping load and practice with that load instead. 

I don't know what sort of a pattern most people get with shot from a rifled pistol or revolver barrel but I doubt it is very effective unless very close to the target.  If you are concerned about your bullet penetrating your assailant and injuring someone else, get one of those flying ashtray type slugs or something designed to dump all its energy into the target. 

I would say forget the shot and practice with proper loads.  JMTCW.  Mikey.

[Dave in WV]

If you have the right by law to shot someone you have the right to shoot to kill. If you don't have the capability to kill the other person (using rat or snake shot) they may have the ability to kill you and probably will.

[jrdudas]

I fear that most who responded have misunderstood the intent of my question.  I am not interested in "stinging" someone in a self defense situation; I asked the question because I have no experience with snake shot and wondered if it is similiar to being shot with a .410 shotgun.  I was interested in more stopping power, not less.  It seems that a pistol that can deliver the same close range (up to about 10 yards) impact as a .410 shotgun would be devastating to the bad guy.  Based on the responses that is not what snake shot does.  Does anyone use one of the .410/45 combination pistols for CCW.  They look quite bulky in the pictures I have seen of them and probably not appropriate for CCW.

Thanks,  JR

[KN]

Well that certainly changes things a bit. A 410 style gun would be quite effective up close. But you are correct in that the ones I have seen were way too bulky. One other thing to consider, Although rare a gun fight could escalate to much farther distances. Do you want to be handicapped with a weapon that is ineffective at longer ranges?

[1marty]

I have always found it odd that people arm themselves for self defense and can't bring themselves to kill an attacker. One of my friends  was a route man and had a carry permit. When he was held up he shot the thief with his 38 in the leg. The bad guy shot him twice in the gut. My friend died the bad guy survived.
For home protection I have a 12 g 870 with oo buck. For carrying it's a Beretta 9MM. If you shoot someone with snake shot you may hear him say ouch.

[SHOOTALL]

SNAKE SHOT is #9 shot at best but more often it is #11 or #12 shot all loaded with less shot than found in 410 shells , so no they are not the same ,
it was stated above that if you have the right to shoot someone you have the right to kill them , that is not correct .
 If you fear for your life you have the right to defend yourself IE: to make the threat stop being a threat , once they are no longer a threat you do not have the right to continue the fight , if you repel an attack and the attacker dies its one thing but your goal is to stop the attack not punish that right is the courts !
the 410 even with buck shot doesn't equal a good 410 shot gun when fired from a derringer or revolver , a bullet with more weight should penetrate deeper than buck shot also !
if your intent is to defend yourself from  ruthless attack why do you want a less effective weapon ?

[K.K]

Let me first state that I applaud the first poster with first getting a CCW, and then, realizing that he needs help, asking for it.  Bravo! 

I am by no means an expert on firearms, concealed carry, or gunfighting tactics. I do however, agree that anyone that carries a handgun for protection should use the most powerful cartridge that he or she can handle, as they are most likely to stop the threat.

An enemy that attacks you or your family with the intent of doing bodily harm or worse, must be dealt with quickly and decisively.  I believe that you should carry a gun and cartridge that is a proven fight-stopper, and with a proven bullet, not bird-shot. When it is time to use your weapon in self defense, and I hope that day never comes for any of us, you will want to stop that threat then and there, not sting him like a scalded hound, or worse yet, let him draw his own weapon and hurt you or your loved ones.

So, in case you missed it, I vote a definitive NO for snake shot!!!

[Dand]

I have carried CCI 38 shot loads but it was for dog deterrent.  I have a 357 Ruger SP 101 and I load 2-3 shot shells and 3 or 2 Mag Safe or Glaser Safety rounds.  Our neighborhood occasionally has stray dogs. A couple weeks ago a stray came out of the blue and attacked my dog which was on a leash.  We haven't had any problems like this for years so I wasn't carrying.  After about 2 minutes of wild scramble and 3 separate attacks, we chased the mutt off.  I was heaving 3-5 pound rocks and kicking for all I was worth but only landed one. I was amazed to find no damage to my dog - a 2 yr female chocolate lab about 70 pounds. No cuts, scrapes or   even bruises or limping. The attacking dog was bigger but apparently not much of a fighter as it had my dog by the back of the neck several times.

So I'm carrying again but my biggest fear is stray bullets in a populated neighborhood with kids and a lot of good dogs, or even hurting my own dog. I carry some standard 38s in a Bianchi speed strip as well. I'm well aware of the limitations but for my situation it seems like a reasonable thing to do.  I have thought of getting the empty capsules and loading with heavier shot for this use.

When I worried about bears in the neighborhood I go much more heavily loaded with at least 180 gr 357 loads or more often 41 mag and 250 ot 265 gr loads.

for the 2 legged varmints I would most definately NOT carry shot loads - I like the Speer 135 snubby loads, load my own 140 gr medium velocity loads, or Win Silvertip 145 gr. loads.

[rockbilly]

In 1960, one morning at about 1:00AM, I was setting in my car at the Thunderbird Drive-in located in Bossier City, LA.  An individual I had a confrontation with earlier at work drove in and got out of his car, he walked around to the passenger side, opened the back door and took out a 20 gauge single-shot shotgun and shot me in the face from about 15 feet away.  The pain in my chest was intense so I tore my tie off, opened the shirt, went in with my hand to assess the damage, when I withdrew the hand there was no blood, so I assumed I was OK.  I went under the seat and retrieved my 1911 from the shoulder holster, jacked a round in the chamber and went after the guy.  He was attempting to reload the shotgun when I reached him, why I didn't shoot him I will never know, but as I approached, I swung from left field and hit him in the face with the trigger guard and underside of the barrel putting my full 240 pounds into the swing.  Since I had jacked a round into the chamber, the gun was loaded and the hammer back, as I hit him I squeezed the trigger, the gun went off, he fell, I thought I had killed him.  There was an off-duty Bossier City Policemen working security at the drive-in, he was on the scene immediately, gun drawn, and pointed at me.  I tried to surrender my gun to him, but keep in mind it is a 1911 Colt .45 auto, when it discharged as I hit the guy it chambered another round and left the hammer back.  The Cop took the gun, and in attempting to let the hammer down discharged another round almost hitting me in the leg, and the other guy in the back, this cycled another round into the chamber which he immediately discharged into the side of a car.  Finally, he made the gun safe, and looked me in the face, I was covered with blood, several pellets had entered above my left eye, one right under the eye, several in my cheek, two passed through my ear and lodged behind the ear, a dozen or so were in my neck.  I still carry several pellets today.

The point is, I was shot from a distance of about 15 feet with a 20 gauge shotgun, and still managed to have a lot of fight left in me until the cop and several other people scared the crap out of me and convinced me I was hurt bad.  I was wearing a suit and tie which prevented much of the shot from penetrating my chest area,  normally I would have been wearing the shoulder holster as it was required at work, but had removed it because I had my girlfriend with me. An ambulance picked me up and rushed me to the hospital.  In the emergency room I was cleaned up, given a tetanus shot, the wounds were covered with a few band-aids, and I walked out.  Of course I was awful sore for the next few days, and wished a million times that I had shot the guy who eventually ended up getting sentenced to two years in jail.

Since this incident, I know first hand that bird-shot may not do any damage to a perp, since then,  it had been my opinion that if I ever have to shoot someone I want to do it with a big gun!