22 caliber deer bullets

[Slufoot]

My brother in-law sold all of his guns except one. It's a Savage combination gun with a 223 Rem. over a 3", 20 gauge shotgun barrel. He lives in TN and told me it was legal to use a 223 for deer.

I want to load him some ammo and want to use the best bullet for deer hunting, but here is the kicker. I looked on the Savage web site and they show a 1-14" twist. I was going to load him some Nosler 60 grain Partitions but I'm almost positive they won't stabilize with that slow twist rate.

I looked in a couple of my reloading supply catalogs and found some Speer 55 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claws and I also found some Barnes 45 grain XLC coated X Boattail bullets.

Anyone with any thoughts and/or experience with these bullets, or know of some other premium bullet that will stabilize in a 14 twist barrel?

Thank you very much!
Slufoot

[Lloyd Smale]

I would guess considering the gun its not going to be a 300 yard tack driver anyway and the 1-14 twist might be fine for minute of deer 60 grainers and the fact that there spinning slower might actually help keep them from comming apart.

[quickdtoo]

I should think than 55gr softpoints should work well. Some of the heavier, but short for their weight bullets would be good to try too, the 64gr Win Powerpoint would be one to try. I think the X-bullets would be going the wrong way since they're long for their weight and wouldn't stabilize as easily. Those listed below I'd certainly consider trying, most of them have reviews reporting good performance on deer.

Tim

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=280317&t=11082005

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=609136&t=11082005

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=748917&t=11082005

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=231616&t=11082005

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=738047&t=11082005

[LaOtto222]

You might try a 60-64 grain bullets to see if they will stabilize, short of that a 55 grain bullet should stabilize without a problem. If I was "stuck" using 55 grain bullets, I would definitely try the Speer 55 grain TBBC SP (trophy bonded bear claw) or a 55 grain Sierra Game King spitzer boat tail, with the Speer as my first choice. Do not forget that 20 gauge barrel with slugs, I guarantee you it will flatten any whitetail out to 50- 75 yards, if it will hold a 3 shot group to 4" at 50 yards.

[Slufoot]

Thanks for the replies folks!

quickdtoo, Those links you posted were great! I really got excited when I opened the links for the Speer hot-core bullets. I didn't know Speer made these so I went to their web site and found out they don't make them, Midway screwed up in their description, Dang! The smallest Hot-Core is a 6mm, 80 grainer.
I read the reviews from the links you posted and they were very helpful. The Sierra GameKing sounds like it would be a good choice with the slow twist barrel.

I wasn't sure how the Bear Claw bullet was constructed so I went to their web site. I'm afraid they would be too long to sabilize in this twist barrel.

Lloyd, I'm afraid they would be so inaccurate and possibly keyhole.

The problem is I can't get the gun to try loads in. I was wanting to load these deer loads for him for a Christmas present.

Thanks!
Slufoot

[jamie]

The Bear Claws are a good choice, well, as good as he has with a 1-14 twist. 

[Hairtrigger]

I would tell him to put the 20ga barrel on and shoot slugs.
I am a believer in the fact that most hunters will not wait long enough for a shot that the 223 will handle.

[PartsMan]

I don't think you have to put the shotgun barrel on a savage combination gun.
He can load up a slug and a partition.

[coyotejoe]

My experience with four of the Savage combos is that slugs shoot so low of the rifle barrel that you really need two different sights to keep them both on target at 50 yards. I've always found the rifle barrel to be quite accurate and with shot loads the smoothbore patterns close enough to POA but with slugs it will be a foot  low and quite likely off a bit to left or right. All of those were 20 ga. smoothbores and the rifle barrels were .22 LR, .22WMR, .223 and 30/30.

[woodchukhntr]

I had similar results with the 20 ga. Savage 24's. I had them in .22/20, .22 mag./20, and .222/20.  The slugs didn't shoot anywhere near the same point as the rifle bullets did.  I have a .30-30/12 ga. now and was pleasantly surprised to find the slugs hitting just 4-6" to the right at 50 yd., and grouping well too!  The .30-30 can be loaded for just about anything, and the 12 ga. has interchangeable chokes.  This is the most versatile gun I have ever had!  Now if it was as light as the older .222/20, it would be perfect.

[Hairtrigger]

I don't think you have to put the shotgun barrel on a savage combination gun.
He can load up a slug and a partition.

You are right, I was thinking handi rifle I guess

[woodchukhntr]

I think that the Handi Rifles have a faster twist, perhaps 1:12".  If so that is better than 1:14".

[LaOtto222]

I would think that this bullet from Speer would punch a deer's ticket and stabilize in 1 -14" twist barrel. You would have to push it up there in the 2900 - 3000 fps range for best results.

22 cal. Trophy Bonded Bear Claw SP
 Part Number    Caliber  Weight Grain    Weight Gram    Construction
     1725       22 cal.    55                3.56           Bonded

Use    Bullet Coefficient    Sectional Density    Diameter Inches    Diameter mm    Box Count
2            0.199                       0.157                  0.224                     5.69                50

Abbreviation Key:
BT - boat tail, FMJ - full metal jacket, FN - flat nose, GD - Gold Dot, HP - hollow point, SP - soft point,
TMJ - encased-core full jacket, RN - round nose, SWC - semi-wadcutter, WC - wadcutter

Usages:
1- Varmint, 2- Big Game, 3- Match, 4- Special Purpose, 5- Large/Dangerous Game
6- Personal Protection, 7- General Purpose, 8- Practice, 9- Target, 10- Handgun Hunting

Note that the #2 is for big game

[LaOtto222]

After a little more thought, it may not stabilize because it has a lot of copper in the base. It may be too long.

[quickdtoo]

Here's a great thread on .22 cal bullet terminal performance.

Tim

http://24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1754035/Board/43/page/1/fpart/all/gonew/1#UNREAD

[jhalcott]

  I know the 55 grain bullets work out to about 125 yards. I used to shoot deer on crop damage permits and with what ever rifle I was carrying. Lots of times the gun was a Rem 700 .223. I would shoot them thru the ribs and they seldom went 40 yards. I never tried any other weight in that gun.

[Slufoot]

Yesterday I called the Barnes Bullet Co. and talked with a guy named Dave in technical support. He was very friendly and helpful as I told him about the problem I was having trying to find a bullet suitable for deer from a 1-14" twist barrel. He told me the only bullet they are making right now is the 53 grain TSX and he didn't feel like it would work in the slow twist. I asked about other bullets and he told me they were working on a 45 grain TSX but it probably wouldn't be available until spring '08. I asked about the 45 grain XLC and he told me it had been discontinued but if I could find some, it would definetly work. I searched all of the reloading supply companies that I could think of and they were all out of stock. I found a place with some 50 grain flat base XLC bullets and I called back and asked Dave about these and he still didn't feel like they would stabilize.
So if anyone knows were I can buy a box of the Barnes 45 grain XLC bullets I would greatly appreciate it.

After a little more thought, it may not stabilize because it has a lot of copper in the base. It may be too long.

LaOtto222, My thoughts were exactly the same as yours. At first I thought this would work but when I seen how they were made I was pretty sure they would be too long to stabilize in a 14" twist.

quickdtoo, Thanks once again for the link to some very interesting reading.


GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

[quickdtoo]

Barnes has some 50gr XLCs and 50gr uncoated XFBs in their closeouts.

Tim

http://www.barnesbullets.com/sunshop/index.php?action=item&id=212&prevaction=category&previd=7&prevstart=0

http://www.barnesbullets.com/sunshop/index.php?action=item&id=174&prevaction=category&previd=7&prevstart=0