Author Topic: Range Report, HB 223, Mueller APV, De-Resonator (Read 2918 times)

cascadedad · « **on:** October 28, 2007, 08:35:58 PM »

I haven't posted much on here lately because I haven't been able to get out shooting for awhile.

As maybe a few of you remember, I posted a picture of my 223 with a Limbsaver De-Resonator a while back. If you remember, we were all having some fun with the de-resonator.

Here is a repeat of that photo.

Here is a photo of the gun in my shooting spot. This was pre-De-Resonator.

This photo was also taken on a previous outing, but these are the ammos I was shooting today also.

I did a trigger job on the gun and also RTV bedded the forearm per Mac's instructions. I rest on the forearm right where the forearm screw is located. As I have posted on here several times, this gun has shot 1 1/4" groups consistently since the trigger job and RTV bedding. These groups were shot with both the Ultramax and WWB. I am VERY low on the WWB right now. Actually, I have a case of it at my brother's house, but it is all the way across the state.

Will get it at Thanksgiving.

OK, here is the target I shot today. I only had a short period of time, but wanted to see if the de-resonator made any difference. I started off with the de-resonator in the location the above picture shows. I moved it after the first and second group and then left it at that location.

Even though I had poked fun at the guys that said they would not put something that ugly on their gun, I truthfully didn't think the thing would work on my heavy barrel Handi. I did however believe it would work for a lighter barrel gun. But, I must draw the conclusion that it did help. As I said, prior to today 1 1/4" 3-shot groups was the best I could do with this rifle.

Note that Group 4 was shot with WWB. If you look at Groups 3 & 5, those were shot with Ultramax and the De-Resonator in the same location. Those 6 shots go into about 0.85".

cascadedad · « **Reply #1 on:** October 28, 2007, 08:37:35 PM »

Dang it! Sorry that target photo is not easier to read. It is my first attempt at adding text using Photoshop. Let me know if you have any questions.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #2 on:** October 28, 2007, 08:45:57 PM »

Thanks for the report, lookin good!! I'd be glad to pick that ammo up and hold it for ya!!

Tim

cascadedad · « **Reply #3 on:** October 28, 2007, 08:53:07 PM »

You are SUCH a nice person, I can't get over it!

Mac11700 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 29, 2007, 07:09:42 AM »

Looking good Bro...with a little more trigger time...I think you will be punching single holes with it..but it's turned into a real good shooter right now..It's funny about the deresonator isn't it..

I'm glad you at least tried it to prove to your self they do work...

Mac

d_hiker · « **Reply #5 on:** October 29, 2007, 10:48:19 AM »

Nice report and nice groups.

canon6 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 29, 2007, 12:59:51 PM »

Glad to see that the 223 is getting dialed in, take care of yourself and watch out for friends who offer to hold ammo for you

Doug

MSP Ret · « **Reply #7 on:** October 29, 2007, 01:31:00 PM »

canon6 is correct, not everyone is to be trusted. Get that WWB to me and I will guard it for you....<><....

30-06man · « **Reply #8 on:** October 29, 2007, 02:49:12 PM »

i bought one just haven't got around to putting it on my gun. haven't made up which one yet. i believe it will work. i may put it on a 7mm rem mag that's 1.5 inches at 125 off bench with factory trigger. i will lighten the trigger before i try it though. cascadedad do you still think that thing is "cute''? looks tatical to me

cascadedad · « **Reply #9 on:** October 30, 2007, 08:26:11 AM »

Thanks guys for all the willingness to help out. But, don't call me, I'll call you!

All my comments prior to this weekend were made in a joking manner, having a little fun with the deresonator. I really don't consider the thing "cute", but, given the results I had, it will stay on.

For those that are not too hung up on looks and your looking for a little more accuracy, I would recommend giving it a try.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** October 30, 2007, 08:39:07 AM »

I bought one of the bull barrel deresonators on one of my recent trips to SW, it's in my shooting box so the next time I make a range trip, it will get tested.

The standard one was a real pain to move on an H&R, just no fun to give it a real test moving it in 1" increments to find the sweet spot. $:-\$

Tim

cascadedad · « **Reply #11 on:** October 30, 2007, 10:01:34 AM »

Tim, I had a hard time installing the bull barrel deresonator. I was afraid it might be real hard to move once it sat on the barrel for awhile. When I was shooting Saturday, I just moved it by putting hard thumb pressure to push on one side and then the other. It really wasn't bad at all. You can't just grab it and slide it down the barrel though. You have to "walk" it down the barrel.

Sure would be nice to see one tried on a lightweight barrel that is shooting in the 1 1/2 to 2" range with factory ammo.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #12 on:** October 30, 2007, 10:35:53 AM »

I use WD40 to put em on, it goes on real easy then, but once it's been on even a little while, the small one is a bear to remove from a bull barrel.

Tim

cascadedad · « **Reply #13 on:** October 30, 2007, 12:38:42 PM »

Oh man, a small one on a bull barrel,,,,,,yea, that might not be a wise thing.

just bill · « **Reply #14 on:** October 30, 2007, 03:21:05 PM »

I see a gun warming up from the first two groups, then shooting slightly better. I don't see the resonator doing anything.

If you really want to know if it helps.

With the same ammo after some warm up shots. Shoot a 10 shot group with it and a 10 shot group with out. At least one 10 shot of each.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #15 on:** October 30, 2007, 04:46:19 PM »

Quote

I don't see the resonator doing anything.

That's cause your not looking...or believing the thing actually works...and if you would have been following along with what all he's done with his rifle so-far......you would understand that his 3 shot group holds more significance than what your giving it...Shooting 10 shot groups with ammo that gives a known value in a Handi..while nice...isn't really needed for an individual to know wither the product works or not......They are after all still break action single shots...not bench rest rifles...

Sooner or later folks will understand why these little rubber donuts do work for many people...wither folks wants to believe it or not...nor no matter how much they dislike the looks...nor how much fun they want to poke at it calling all sorts of names...Most folks who actual do give them a fair trial with various ammo on guns not already tuned to shoot 1/4"-3/4" groups find they do indeed help it..How much depends on the gun & the load...On his...decreasing his group size with ammo giving a consistent 1-1/4" by almost an 1" is a very good accomplishment..

Quote

As I have posted on here several times, this gun has shot 1 1/4" groups consistently since the trigger job and RTV bedding.

Mac

rex6666 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 31, 2007, 04:44:57 AM »

I think i must be missing something.
I would very-very happy with 1"-11/4" groups at 100yards, given what we pay for Handis
I think that is great shooting, what are you going to shoot that has smaller than 1 1/4"target area, like the man said these are not Bench rifles. It is all in what each person expects
some want a $250.00 dollar rifle to do what a $1500.00 rifle will do, think i just discovered
why their is a lot of whining about inaccuracy in a Handi. I don't expect more than $250.00
out of mine if the will shoot 2"-2 1/2" groups at 100yds that is fine (don't plan on shooting
anything smaller) this rifle in question what ever the cause, to me is doing a great job.
IS IT FOR SALE
this just my $.02 it something to ponder $1,500.00 shots from a $250.00 rifle WONDERFUL

~Ace~ · « **Reply #17 on:** October 31, 2007, 05:02:17 AM »

1 1/4" at 100 yards is 2.5" at 200, and 5+" at 400 yards

3/4 " at 100 yards is 1.5" at 200, and 3+" at 400 yards

With a Varmint Caliber, should one Not expect to be able to hit Varmints in it's usable range ? I don't think that because you spend $250 for a gun you should be handi-capped on the usable range.

The .223, .243 and 7.62X39 Handi's I had all shot under 1",(.270 right at) the first 2 being Well under 1" and not enough time spent with the 7.62 to really get it doing all it could. My problems with Handi's were not the Groups they would shoot, but the POI shift due to Tempature and how you closed them. If your Consistent with how you close the action, they do well. But in real Hunting situations, sometimes you have to be Quiet and Ease it closed.

Busta · « **Reply #18 on:** October 31, 2007, 05:47:23 AM »

Good shootin' C'Dad!

I never had a doubt that the Deresonator would work, I have been using LimbSavers on my bows for 8 or 9 years. Any time you can lessen vibration, it's always a good thing for accuracy. I do have to admit, they aint pretty.

Good Luck on those varmints!

rex6666 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 31, 2007, 06:33:32 AM »

under varmint shooting conditions, (not off a solid bench) i think their are very few shooters that will consistently hit in a 5" circle at 400 yards with a 223 and not a lot at 300yds. Their are some not a lot.
what you pay for an item regardless of what it is has something to do with what you can expect
other wise all your big time bench rest shooters would be shooting handis or guns off the rack.
Yes it would be nice to buy a $250.00 223 that will shoot like a $1,500.00 bench gun, but
IT AIN'T GOING TO HAPPEN.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #20 on:** October 31, 2007, 06:38:25 AM »

Actually you could pay a lot more than $1500, and the Handi may still shoot better!!

Tim

http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/feb97money.html

rex6666 · « **Reply #21 on:** October 31, 2007, 10:02:42 AM »

Now that is an impressive article Tim.
you should show that to Philtx (why should i buy a handi) indeed.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #22 on:** October 31, 2007, 10:07:17 AM »

Your idea, go ahead and post it for him,

it's in the FAQs, he may have already seen it.

Tim

cascadedad · « **Reply #23 on:** October 31, 2007, 01:39:50 PM »

Wow, I don't check in for a little while and all heck breaks loose!

Rex, NO it is not for sale, unless the price is right,,,,,,,,,,then pretty much everything is for sale. My kids,,,,,well, depends on which day you ask me.

One thing I get a kick out of on this forum. You have those that get 1 1/2" to 2 1/2" accuracy and that is great with them. It'll put one in the boiler room of the whitetail at 120 yards and why worry about anything else. Every time they shoot it equals a dead deer. Some of those can't understand why someone would even bother with expecting more.

While others on this board really would not accept anything less than 1/2 MOA. Some of these have shown that they are completely unimpressed by someone shooting 1 1/4" groups.

Personally, I am TOTALLY impressed by the guy who has a Handi that will shoot 2" groups and uses it to shoot deer and "Bang/Flops" every deer he shoots at. The rifle is a tool and this guys tool is working perfectly.

But, I am also equally impressed with the guy that has produced a tack driver, whether he uses it for punching small 1 hole groups in paper, or shoot PDs out ot several hundred yards.

I am NOT impressed by those that can not see someone elses success with how they use their gun (tool). Just because it is not what you want/need/expect, if it is perfect for that other person, be happy for them and don't criticize.

For me, I am a tinkerer. I bought the Handi because after reading about them on here, I wanted to see if I was up the task of making it a MOA rifle. After the last range trip, I think I have done it. By the way, not sure if I mentioned it in a previous post, but up until Saturday I had shot exactly ONE 3 shot group of less than an inch at 100 yards. Saturday, I shot 4 out of 5! That was with a <$400 dollar rifle/scope setup using 2 different factory ammos.

Yes, I am happy.

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #24 on:** November 01, 2007, 01:34:29 AM »

Congrats on the fine shooting!

Anytime you can shoot groups like that with factory ammo, it is an accomplishment.

I don't reload, but from reading all the post about working up loads, it has given me some interest, that I might some day consider doing.

I enjoy reading about how someone has had difficulties getting their rifle to shoot respectable groups, and then turn them into tack drivers, and usually by changing just a few grains here and there.

It is also an accomplishment to find the right brand, or type of bullet in factory ammo that makes a shooter from an out of the box rifle.

I hunt and understand how it works, when you don't always get the perfect shot, or guess on the right yardage, and how awkward firing positions can wreck accuracy, when compared to the known distances, and solid rest of a bench shooter.

That said, a hunting rifle doesn't need to be a tack driver, but it would help tremendously in the confidence department if it was.

Confidence is something we all as shooters develop, and it varies according to what we come to expect from ourselves, and our rifle as our skill levels increase.

Love to see these kind of reports!

cascadedad · « **Reply #25 on:** November 01, 2007, 06:24:14 AM »

Thanks Jimbo.

After reading about the Handi Rifle on this site and then when I bought this rifle, my goal was to tinker with it and see if I could make it MOA. I have never had a MOA rifle before. Also, that it would repeat the point of impact from one range trip to the next. IF I could do that, I felt I would have the coyote gun that I was looking for. Based on what I had read, I knew it would probably take a little work which I was looking forward to.

I did play around with a pressure point between the front of the forearm and the barrel. It helped a little, but I could not get MOA. In my testing, I found that this pressure is SUPER CRITICAL. Even with the Heavy Barrel, you change the torque on the forearm screw and the point of impact changes significantly.

I also tried 1 and two o-rings and that helped only a little also. Using the pressure point or the o-rings, I just could not get consistent results from trip to trip.

What did make a HUGE difference is when I did the RTV bed job. My point of impact from one range trip to the next was consistent and I had consistency of group size from trip to trip. I thought that was a VERY big accomplishment. As I have mentioned the groups were right around 1 1/4" every time out. I was happy with the results, but still the tinkerer in me is always looking for improvement.

That is when there was some talk on here about the deresonator. That's when I thought, "Hey, for $15 or so, I'll give it a try." I know some think they are ugly and would never put one on their gun. That is fine by me, but I am not the type of person that really cares what other people think. My thought going in was if it works, it'll stay on there, if it doesn't, it'll go in my junk pile with a bunch of other useless stuff.

Conclusion, I tried a lot of things on this rifle and I have learned a lot. One BIG thing I learned was that even with that thick heavy barrel, it is still sensitive to pressure points on the barrel. Also, even with that thick heavy barrel, barrel harmonics still come into play with accuracy. I am not an expert on this stuff, but when I looked at that massive barrel and shooting a 223, I really didn't think the barrel would move enough to affect where the bullet goes. I was wrong.

Now,,,,,I can't wait to start reloading!!!!

Hopefully, some of what I have written might help/encourage another new Handi owner or two. I have learned so much from this forum over the last several months and it has really made a difference. So, many thanks go out here to a lot of people, but I would like to specifically thank Tim and Mac for sharing so much information. Thanks guys!!!!!

Mac11700 · « **Reply #26 on:** November 01, 2007, 06:57:08 AM »

We're glad to help when we can...That's what we do...so...Your Most Welcome...If I may...one thing I will suggest to you...is to increase the barrel channel even more...and use more RTV silicon...like I did on my 25-06...It will help more than you think it will...I prefer the thicker bedding of it over a thin coat with the additional clearance of the barrel as well..

Mac

quickdtoo · « **Reply #27 on:** November 01, 2007, 08:24:08 AM »

You're very welcome Glen, as Mac said, always glad to help when we can.

Tim