newbie's best way to get started

[tigmaned]

i have been thinking about doing either trap or skeet for some time now, after i shoot my contenders, garands and bullseye handguns i always stop by my ranges shotgun shaq and check out the trap and or skeet matches and just sit in the back and watch the things going on. busting the clays in tiny pieces looks alot funner then little wholes in the paper. not shooting or know much about shotguns i wonder which would be best to get started in either sport with, i know one gun for each sport will come later on. i always had a thing for over unders, very classy look guns! are there any good books i should look at to learn more first, or a web site that has more info on the sport of either trap or skeet?  a older friend of mine told me trap is easy to learn but harder to master and skeet is harder to learn but easyer to master?
thanks for looking and any help.

[Questor]

Tigmaned:

Egad! You remind me of me. I just started trap myself for the same reasons.

Try this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Digest-Book-Trap-Skeet-Shooting/dp/0873494288/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1198000171&sr=8-1

It's the Gun Digest book of Trap and Skeet. I found it at the library and liked it a lot. Not too wordy and tells you what you need to know to get started.

I got an O/U based called the Winchester Select Energy Trap. I liked it because it fits me fine and it is discounted to $1300 new at Gander Mountain. It might not fit you. There are plenty of good trap pumps out there. The Remington 870 pump trap model is less expensive than an O/U.

I chose trap just because it's so popular in my area. Some place have more skeet shooters, I am told. In any case, sporting clays is more expensive by far, so I don't have an interest in it.

[rbwillnj]

If you want to get into the shot gun sports, the one thing you shouldn't do is to go out and buy the nicest looking gun you think you can afford.  Fit is everything, and its a heck of a lot easier to get an idea of the fit if you shoot.   Putting it up to your shoulder in the store just doesn't do it.  I can't speak for skeet guys, but trap guys are pretty good guys (I'm sure skeet guys are good guys to, I just don't know any of them) and most would be happy to let you try out their gun. 

[jbmi]

For a beginner in either sport find a nice used Remington 1100 or 1187, For about $600 you can buy the gun and have an adjustable pad installed if needed. This will help in making it fit, some trap  models have a MC stocks also.
When you decide which sport you'll enjoy most (trap for me) then find a nice trap gun and have it fitted to you. A nice trap gun can be a single barrel, O/U , pump or Semi-auto.
They are all made in a trap configuration. Fit is more important than looks or action type. If you are going to shoot doubles in trap then  only a semi-auto or O/U will work, if you chose only 16 yd and handicap birds, a nice single barrel BT99 or Remington 90T are great entry level guns.
I've been shooting trap for 30 years but only registered trap for the past 4.  Typical for trap shooters in the past 4 years I've bought , shot and sold a Browning Citori Trap, Rem. 1187 trap, Remington 3200 Special Trap, Remington 90T, Browning Ultra XT, Browning Citori Trap Plus, Browning BT99, Kreigoff KS-5, and have finally settled on a Kolar combo. If you really get into the sport you'll go through your fair share of guns too.
Good luck, have fun, enjoy shooting.

[tigmaned]

thanks for all the help so far, and i all ready ordered the book.
what do you all think about a Stoeger Condor or even there Competition model they sell for a beginner, i really like the looks on that.

[XD9]

I don't own a Stoeger but I work with a guy who just bought the gun you're speaking of as an entry level gun to start shooting skeet.  He shoots some trap too and loves the gun.  He originally bought the 12ga but then sold it and got the 20ga version.  He shoots two or three rounds of skeet a week, weather permitting, and hasn't had any problems out of the gun.

[rbwillnj]

I have a friend who also bought the Stoeger Condor (he bought the one with two barrels) and it broke after a couple hundred rounds.   I agree with jmbi.  If you must buy a beginner gun, I would get a Remingington 1100  (not the 1187).  They are offered in many different configurations, and their are tons of used ones out there.   It helps if you know if want to shoot Trap or Skeet, because the guns are different.....but you can shoot a skeet gun for trap and vice versa, but your are better off with a Trap gun for Trap and a Skeet Gun for Skeet.

The thing about Trap and Skeet is that you shoot a lot of rounds through the gun.  Every time you go out you shoot at least 100 rounds, and maybe more so you want a gun that's going to stand up to that kind of use.  I would stay away from low end over/unders

(The Remington 1187 is a great gun, but it has had some problems functioning with light target loads)

[Questor]

Tigmaned:

NO! to the Stoeger. You need a gun built for two things:
1) Specifically designed for trap-- the ergonomics are different. And the differences are very important.
2) Built to shoot a lot of rounds

I don't think the Stoeger fits either of those criteria. Sometimes you can find BT99's used for under $1000, but don't expect to pay much less than $1000 for a good solid trap or skeet gun unless you go to an auto or a pump.

I see a lot of guys with 870 trap guns that are old and worn. I consider that a good sign that they are good guns for that purpose.

My thought on it is that the game is expensive (because of high ammo costs and costs per round of trap at a public range) and if I couldn't afford a reasonably good O/U or single, then I wouldn't even bother to start shooting it.

I don't know what makes a good skeet gun, but a lot of them have features, like Monte Carlo stocks, that are like trap guns.

[Questor]

I also agree with the other posts about Remington autos. If I couldn't afford the O/U, then I'd get a trap version of the Remington auto. I've seen them for under $800 new.

[tigmaned]

o.k. a remington 1100, i like the idea of this since i could switch to a skeet length barrel on the same shotgun. the Classic trap looks very nice. what would be the best length barrel to start off with the 30" and in either 12g or 20g. vent rib on the barrel a must, right.

[Dixie Dude]

I got started a few years ago.  Used a Rem 11-87 12ga.  Remington did a lot of research to find the "average" size American male and designed the fit accordingly in the early 1960's.  I suggest starting with trap since all shots are going away to get the feel.  Then go to skeet, covers a range of shots.  Later to sporting clays, covers it all including rabbits.  I now use a Benelli SBE for it all and use the same gun to hunt with.  Getting good choke tubes helps.  Factory tubes are not always the best.  One of mine shot a donut on the IC tube when checking the pattern.  Could have missed the bird being dead on.  I would like an over-under but good ones are pricey for a beginner.  One of my sons uses a Beretta 391.  One uses a Rem. 

[tigmaned]

i have a book coming for some help, but i was wondering about the choke type barrel i should get? i have seen full choke, modified choke?? and what about going either 12g or 20g? i take it the most pop is 12g and staying with 12g dose the 2 3/4 or 3" shell matter. i have seen some rem 1100 with 26" skeet barrels and some with 30" trap barrels so i going to try for either one and what ever other barrel will come later for that sport. 

[Dixie Dude]

I use a 28" barrel for all the clay sports, and change choke tubes to conditions.  I use cylinder, skeet, or improved cylinder for skeet.  I use a light modified choke for most sporting clay presentations, sometimes improved cylinder, and sometimes modified.  You can use modified, improved modified, or full for trap, depending on distance from bird.  This is why most people used the screw in choke tubes for the clay sports, not a fixed choke barrel.  The clay ranges I shoot at only allows 2-3/4" shells using no. 7-1/2 shot or smaller.  Some ranges in Florida now require no. 6 steel shot or smaller.  They do not want the shot carrying too far away. 

About every 5 years, they have to remove sod around the ranges, separate the shot out of the dirt, and re-sod.  Lead starts to leach into the soil after about 6-7 years, and into the water table.  Steel can be picked up with magnetic devices.  Hope they stay with lead. 

[rbwillnj]

tigmaned

There are two principal differences between guns for the different sports.  Point of Aim, and Choke.  In Trap, you are always shooting at a rising target, so the guns are designed to shoot a little higher than the point of aim.  Sporting Clay and Skeet guns are designed to shoot at the point of aim.   Chokes for trap are tighter, generally modified - full depending on the gun (I shoot modified on my Krieghoff but its as tight as Full was on my Browning) for Skeet you shoot a very open choke, ie Skeet Chokes.  For sporting clays most people use something in between, like Improved Cylinder, but depending on the shot, you may need something tighter or more open.

If you plan to shoot all three games, you really need a gun with interchangeable chokes.  If you have a gun with interchangeable chokes you can use the gun for all three, and you will quickly adjust your point of aim instinctively.   If you have a Skeet or Sporting gun you will probably have to cover the bird when you shoot Trap.   If you have a Trap gun, you will probably have to put your bead a little below the bird when shooting Skeet, but in either case you will quickly adjust and it will be second nature.  In the shot gun sports you really shouldn't be looking at the sights anyway.

[tigmaned]

i am thinking of starting with trap first since that seems to be where most of the action is at my range, so i would us a full choke for trap? i know i need to do some reading on trap, skeet and shotguns!! being a pistol and rifle guy i missed the boat on shotguns.

[tigmaned]

i am also lean towards a 20ga.
anyone out there own a new Stoeger competition model?
or what about other O/U's out there? i.e. CZ? Huglu?

[rbwillnj]

I know the idea of an over/under with two sets of barrels for under a $1000 is appealing, but the old adage "you get what you pay for" still goes.  If I wanted a shotgun to take out into the field to hunt a couple times a year, or to shoot a few clay birds with once in a while, it might be something to consider, but for trap or skeet, NO.  It just won't stand up to the task.   As I said before, I have a friend with the same set.  It stoped working after 10 or 15 rounds of trap.  Ever since he has been shooting an old Citori I have around for my son to use when he is in town.

If you really want an Over/Under, look for a used Browning Citori Trap.  You should be able to find one for $800 - $1000.  They made Citori Traps with 30" and 32" barrels.  If you get one with 30" barrels it should work fine for Trap, Skeet, and Sporting Clays.  Make sure it has interchangable choke tubes.

[Questor]

I agree with rbwillnj. I've seen Citoris for around $700 used and in good shape. Even if it needs some work eventually there are plenty of gunsmiths who can work on them. But they are truly built to last. It's amazing how much more wear a competition gun can get versus a field gun. Even indestructible guns like the Ljutic trap guns need to go back to the factory every once in a great while for some refurbishing.

I met a guy who was seventeen and had already worn out a Citori trap gun. It took him 500,000 rounds to do it.