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Author Topic: Contender hard to open after firing  (Read 1211 times)

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Offline Ken55

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Contender hard to open after firing
« on: June 09, 2003, 09:53:51 PM »
(6/9/03)  Shot my Super 16 223 Rem Bbl today and experienced gun being hard to open with some brands of ammo.  I was shooting some factory & handloaded  Norindos (55 gr), some factory & hand loaded Federals (55 gr) and some factory UMC (55 gr).  The gun was hard to open with both the Norindo & Federal cases (handloads were full length resized & trimmed to minimum length), but with the UMC the gun openned just fine.   Also noticed the primers (Norindos & Federals--factory & reloads) have a burr, but not the UMC.  Has anyone experienced this with 223 Rem.  :?:  :?:  :?: Thanks Ken. 8)                     (6/10/03)  This is only the 3rd time I've shot this barrel.  Why would it be hard to open with factory Norindos & Federals, but drop right open when shooting factory Remingtons  :?:  :?:
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Offline Questor

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Contender hard to open after firing
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2003, 03:28:46 AM »
Assuming that you've used the gun for a while, I'd be very concerned about pressure.  I don't like to mix brass for center fire ammo. My reaction would be to quit using the loads that are hard to open, then reduce the loads using the same brass and try again.  

The case capacity may differ enough to cause a pressure problem.

Another possibility is that the cases are longer than the ones that are easy to open the gun with. But then I'd expect the gun to be harder to close also.
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Offline Bug

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Hard to Open
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2003, 06:48:36 PM »
You did not state whether it was hard to open only with reloads, or the factory rounds too. It is fairly common for factory rounds to be different, and give differring results , between brands. If it is only your reloads, then likely the internal volume is different (assuming the same load) between brands of brass, and you are riding on the edge of too high pressures. That "burr" on the primer you are talking about is cratering, which CAN be one of the first signs of high pressure. Remember, loading manuals are just a guide, and starting loads in one manual may be max loads in another, as it may also be in your gun. You may likely have to go DOWN from a starting load. It's unusual, but it does happen.,,,,Ronn.
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Offline KN

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Contender hard to open after firing
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2003, 09:29:12 PM »
I just recently had the same problem with a 357 barrel. With full house loads it was very hard to open. I had to pull the trigger guard 2 or 3 times before it would pop open. Turns out the locking lugs were quite a bit longer than any of my other barrels so there was alot more surface area on the lugs making contact wuth the frame. I belt sanded them to the average length of all my other barrels and the problem went away. Just some thing to check.   KN
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Offline Ken55

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Contender hard to open after firing
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2003, 06:37:36 AM »
(6/12/03)  I was shooting (3) factory rounds Norindo, Federal & Remington all 55 gr.  After firing the factory Norindos & Federals I had to pull the triggerguard back & give the barrel a downward strike,which would open it.  The factory Remingtons, the barrel would release normally.  The (2) handloads (Norindos were loaded with IMR 4198) & (federals were loaded with AA 2230), with both loads the barrel would release in the same way as the factory Norindos & Federals.  Both factory & handloaded Norindos & Federals had cratered primers after firing.  It seems that this barrel would digest the factory Remingtons all day long with no problems.
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Offline Bug

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Something else,
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2003, 11:38:56 AM »
It may be high pressure. Weigh some cases, and get an average for each brand (10 or so should be enough). If the lightest cases are the Remingtons, then high pressures are likely the problem; regardless of the load. The only other things I can think of, are:
1. excessive headspace (it only needs to be a little)allowing the primers to back out, then be pressed back in as the case stretches during ignition, causing the problems you describe, and
2. The internals of the firing pins could be dirty, and holding the pin out just a smidgin, and this would also cause a slight burr on the BOTTOM of the primer indentation (check this before you remove the fired case). It won't be on the top of the indentation.
 The only trouble with both of these theories, is that it should happen with all brands of cases. It's got me beat, without holding it in my hands. I'll have to look to greater minds...
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Offline Ken55

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Contender hard to mopen
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2003, 07:55:31 PM »
(6/18/03)  After having previous problems openning the action, took barrel off the frame.  Found (and removed) brass shavings from around the firing pin. Re-shot same selection of ammo ( factory) Rem, FC & Norindo and (handloaded) IMR 4198 (20.2gr) &  AA 2230 (26.5gr) both using 55 gr bullets.  Only had trouble openning action with AA 2230 load-also cratered primers.  Lowering AA 2230 charge to get away from pressure problems........ 8)  8)
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"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration.  Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the World will follow our lead into the future"  - Adolf Hitler 1935

Offline Graycg

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Contender hard to open after firing
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2003, 02:06:16 AM »
Are your Chinese case made of steel?  If they are, I'd save them for your mini-14 or other autoloader with their sloppy chambers.  I find their cases are very hard and their primers are very soft.  That could be cause of flow back problems into your firing pin hole, the cases don't expand well to grip the chamber walls and cause lots of back thrust on the frame, which caused cratering into the firing pin hole that causes difficulty in opening.  Now that still doesn't answer the other factory ammo problem, unless of course you fired that ammo after the Chinese and you had some metal particles already in your gun?
   This might be all a bunch of BS, but I've had some problems with the steel cases in other than semiautos, my ruger number 3 needed to be disassembled to get a steel case out once for the primer flow back problem.

regards,
 Graycg
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Offline Hawkeye

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Here is a little twist to some theories..
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2003, 02:30:34 AM »
I had the same problem, with my 14" .223 about three weeks back. I was shooting the same handload I had been shooting for six months with no opening or primer dimple problems. The load is 1.5grn below max. Last week I was shooting the .223 and it started to get where I had to smack the barrel with my hand for it to open. I noticed that my primers were flowing back into the firing pin hole. Strange.....
I changed primers. Still the same problem. I clean frame and barrel, every piece removed, cleaned and then replaced. Still the same problem.
I called a guy that has been shooting Contenders since they came out.
First thing he said was weak hammer spring or cracked. That would explain the light primer strike I was starting to get. I called TC and ordered two hammer springs, for both of my frames. When they came in I took the old spring out of the .223 frame. LOTS of difference. The old spring was cracked and sprung about 1/8". I installed new spring and I have shot 50 rounds with everything the same, temperature, load and bullet and all of my problems went away. It seems as the weak hammer spring was letting the primer push the firing pin back and the hammer back and the primer would flow into the firing pin hole and this was making the barrel difficult to open. It can only be this because as soon as I changed the hammer spring, all problems went away.  Just my 2 cents.

Mike
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Offline bsekf

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Contender hard to open after firing
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2003, 02:37:55 AM »
Could be "all of the above".  

I would take the extractor out and then fire the gun.  

If it opens hard, check to see if the case or primer is backed out aganist the breech (use prussian blue or a felt tip marker)(big smear, case; small smear, primer) and/or  the case comes out of the chamber hard.  It is probably pressure.  

If it opens hard and the case is not backed out aganist the breech and comes out of the chamber easily.  It is probably locking lugs.  I am inclined to think it is locking lugs.

All of this using good reloads or US factory.  That foreign junk is just that, JUNK!
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Offline Graycg

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Contender hard to open after firing
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2003, 04:36:24 AM »
Hawkeye,
   Real good point!!!  I forgot about that one!  I have a 5 digit frame and that was what solved my problems with it!!!

regards,
 Graycg
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