Author Topic: M83 problems (Read 1618 times)

Humbo · « **on:** October 13, 2007, 01:58:21 PM »

Hello everyone!

First of all, I'm a proud owner of an FA M83 Premier Grade, .454 Casull with 7.5" barrel. I got it this summer, and have been really enjoying this magnificent firearm since.
But today I got into some real trouble with it. I was finished with today's shooting session, and emptied the gun. I put it down, found my FA snap caps, and was going to put them in when I found out the cylinder wouldn't revolve. I could see that the firing pin was sticking into the top chamber, and I quickly came to the conclusion that it was broken. When I came home, I took it out, and saw that the firing pin was snapped in two, and sent an email ordering a couple of new ones from FA. But then I also noticed that the hammer was locking in the half-cocked position. I can't cock it all the way, or uncock it. It's completely jammed in the half-cock position. I didn't do anything else than removing the broken firing pin, and then put it back in to wait for a replacement from FA. I really don't want to take the whole gun apart, and I had hoped that I didn't have to send the whole thing back to FA (I live in Norway).
Anyone here had the same problem, or might now what's wrong? Replacing the firing pin is one thing, but I'm really stressed about the other problem.
I have only fired about 1000 rounds with it, I guess they're supposed to operate flawlessly longer than that?

Any advice is deeply appreciated!

Thanks

Humbo · « **Reply #1 on:** October 13, 2007, 02:16:45 PM »

Well, I managed to fix the problem with the hammer. I just turned the gun, without the cylinder inserted, upside down and jammed it several times into the palm of my hand. And suddenly it was operating normally again. Is this something that can happen when removing the cylinder or something?

Anyways, I'm relieved, and now I'm just waiting for a new firing pin from FA.

Ken ONeill · « **Reply #2 on:** October 14, 2007, 02:07:01 AM »

You may want to see a similar firing pin discussion on this forum starting on June 9, 2007... Sverre A. " firing pin".

Sverre A. · « **Reply #3 on:** October 14, 2007, 08:42:16 AM »

"Greybeard:

It would be interesting to hear Bob chime in on this one if he's seen it. I've fired a lot more rounds that that thru each of the three I've worked with and not had a pin break. Hearing from Bob on what might be causing it so we can help folks reduce such problems would be helpful."

And no answer from Bob on that thread

It seems to me - that FA is standing beyond a problem about the firing pins.

Of course there are no problems to change the pins - if you have a "new" model, but with an old it is more problematic.

A broken pin is NOTHING to talk about when we are shooting at papertargets, deers etc., but I freeze about thinking about a situation like this:

First shot hit the cape buffalo at 30 m, but he attacs you - and :
Firing pin is broken!!!!!!!!

odoh · « **Reply #4 on:** October 14, 2007, 10:13:05 AM »

Quote from: Humbo on October 13, 2007, 02:16:45 PM

Well, I managed to fix the problem with the hammer. I just turned the gun, without the cylinder inserted, upside down and jammed it several times into the palm of my hand. And suddenly it was operating normally again. Is this something that can happen when removing the cylinder or something?

Anyways, I'm relieved, and now I'm just waiting for a new firing pin from FA.

Is firing pin changeout a simple matter? Just bought an 83 ~ its still at the shop awaiting the mandatory waiting period so I've nothing to observe on this issue that seems to be happening frequently ~ seems I read somewhere one had to return the gun to FA?

Sverre A. · « **Reply #5 on:** October 14, 2007, 02:48:13 PM »

I hope you don`t have a problem.

But for us - who have - it would be "nice" to get a comment from guys who have "something to say".

If FA think silence about problems is the right way - I think they are wrong.

I will never buy a FA again - if I can`t get a "peoplesaid" answer.

I can`t travel to Zimbabwe and don`t trust the gun.

I rather bring with me my "simple" Ruger.

And I`m sure that Bob is reading this thread.
But maybe FA has instructions about what he can write

Sverre A. · « **Reply #6 on:** October 14, 2007, 03:05:13 PM »

My situation is:
I shot a East Cape Buffalo with a FA in cal. 454.

Next year - I want to try an elephant.

(and of course a hippo or two)

(and if you think I am an millionair - you are right!!!!!!!!!

Graybeard · « **Reply #7 on:** October 14, 2007, 06:07:19 PM »

Since Bob is the owner he can say whatever he wants to say. But I don't know how often he reads on this forum. It really depends on his scedule. I know he reads here at times and responds when he feels the need but he is not likely here reading every week of the year by any means.

MarkH · « **Reply #8 on:** October 15, 2007, 02:32:18 AM »

FWIW, in at least one hundred thousand rounds down the barrels of various FA 97's and 83's, I have broken ONE firing pin ... and that was on the 97-22 and after much abuse. It happens, I reckon, but there are a number of factors involved in the "why," from handloads to dry firing, and the best way to resolve such an issue is to contact the company ...

Bob Baker · « **Reply #9 on:** October 15, 2007, 07:56:46 AM »

Thanks for the heads up Greybeard.

Firing pin breakage in the centerfires is rare and usually caused by dry firing which is why we recommend against dry firing. Dry firing with snap caps should even be kept to a minimum. Dry firing tends to crystallize the firing pin which allows it to break.

Humbo, the only explanation I can come up with for the gun locking up is if the cylinder were reinserted into the gun while the cylinder lock was in the up position it could happen. Be sure when installing the cylinder that the hammer is put into half cock from the full down position. In other words, don’t take the hammer from full cock to half cock and try to install the cylinder. Also when drawing the hammer back from the full down position be sure to stop at the half cock position, going beyond half cock will allow the cylinder lock to come up. With the cylinder out of the gun just pull the hammer through its positions while watching the cylinder lock and you will see what I mean.

Sverre, I have very little time to spend on the internet. Maybe I am old fashion but I figure that when someone has a concern or question that they would like our input on, they will ask us. We need to hear what the problems are so we can keep trying to make the products better. The Model 83 is built with the idea that it will be used in a dangerous situation while I think you will find most firearms are made with the idea that they may be used in a dangerous situation. That doesn’t mean something isn’t going to go wrong some day, it just means that we try to make it as close to absolutely reliable as we can make it.

Sverre A. · « **Reply #10 on:** October 15, 2007, 09:16:04 AM »

Thanks Bob.

"Sverre, I have very little time to spend on the internet. Maybe I am old fashion but I figure that when someone has a concern or question that they would like our input on, they will ask us."

It was done!

You have a PM!

Graybeard · « **Reply #11 on:** October 15, 2007, 11:00:29 AM »

PMs to Bob are NOT a good idea. Bob checks in here only infrequently so it could be a long time until he sees it unless he has it set up to get an e-mail notice and I've not checked that. I sent him an e-mail about this thread and you see he stopped in. You'd do better checking their website for an e-mail address and e-mailing him since phone calls from over the ocean where you are present time problems and no doubt cost issues as well. If you can't find an e-mail address on their site and he doesn't see your PM soon get with me and I'll give you an e-mail address to use but first try to find it on their site.

Ken ONeill · « **Reply #12 on:** October 15, 2007, 03:05:01 PM »

I passed that e-mail address on to Sverre last June, on this forum. In any event, I don't want to turn this into anything negative, but I'll have to support Mark H's comment. Over the years I've owned 15 FA's . Still have 13 of 'em. I've shot 'em all a bunch. Never broke anything, let alone a firing pin, and I've carried a couple of them over a pretty good area of the world.
BUT, stuff happens, and Sverre's situation seems a very unusual example of that ...that's why I referred to it earlier in this thread.

MarkH · « **Reply #13 on:** October 15, 2007, 05:00:39 PM »

freedom@freedomarms.com

Graybeard · « **Reply #14 on:** October 15, 2007, 05:33:11 PM »

Great I knew there would be one other than the one I use which is Bob's personal e-mail. I'm sure that will reach his attention and is better no doubt for such gun related issues.

Humbo · « **Reply #15 on:** October 16, 2007, 08:00:07 AM »

Seems like there has been some activity in this thread since my last visit

Thanks for all the replies guys.
I don't really know what caused the firing pin to break, but I NEVER dry fire my guns. But that doesn't really mean that it didn't happen. Here's the scenario; a friend and I were out shooting. I fired all 5 cylinders, and put the gun down. The friend wanted to take some pictures of my FA, which was OK with me. He rigged it up together with some of his own firearms, and took some pictures while I was busy testing a Winchester 32-20 from 1889. When I came back to empty my gun, it was already empty, and the cylinder was stuck like I described in my first post. As I mentioned, my FA has never been dry fired, but I don't really know if my friend did it, if only once when emptying it. Is that really all it takes? He said he didn't, but maybe he was just nervous because he found out that it was broken. I don't really know, so I assume he didn't.

I have never fired one single round of factory ammo, I reload everything I fire. The ammo I was using was 320grs gas checked hard cast bullets at 1700 fps, so they're more than mild loads I guess. Those are the loads I use for everyday plinking etc. so I have fired a lot of them. Can it be a part of the problem?

MarkH · « **Reply #16 on:** October 16, 2007, 08:29:22 AM »

Humbo -

Who knows? Could have been your friend's error, could be a number of things. The most knowledgeable person on the subject of FA firing pins and causes of any breakage is there at the factory ... I assume there are no dents in the back of your cylinder indicating that the firing pin struck the cylinder itself, which can happen with poor handling.

If it was me, I would just replace it, which is generally easy with a spanner bit ... and shoot the hound out of it and see if it ever happens again.

Sverre A. · « **Reply #17 on:** October 16, 2007, 10:26:34 AM »

"but I don't really know if my friend did it,"

If you are in the woods - and you unload your gun - and your thumb fail and do a dry-fire:
Isn`t that something a gun must accept?

If you read "my" thread - you can see that I was unlucky two times, and my friend once.
I hope we (just 3 of us?) are finished with pinbreakages

Because of a shouldersurgery - I have not shot my 357 for some months, but when the huntingseason is finished and the springtime comes - you can be sure that I shall try my "fortune"

Bob Baker · « **Reply #18 on:** October 16, 2007, 11:37:20 AM »

Humbo, as Mark suggested, you might try checking the back of the cylinder for a ding from the firing pin hitting it. Another possibility is that when the cylinder was unloaded the hammer was set in its full forward position which causes the firing pin to stick through the firewall. If the cylinder isn't locked in place it can be turned so it hits the firing pin with a side blow which will break the pin if hit hard enough.

Severre, it takes more than an occasional drop of the hammer to cause the pins to break.

Sverre A. · « **Reply #19 on:** October 16, 2007, 11:59:41 AM »

"Severre, it takes more than an occasional drop of the hammer to cause the pins to break."

Of course - just a joke

All the negative things has been said - so here is a positive comment: The accuracy is top!

sixshooter_45 · « **Reply #20 on:** November 20, 2007, 02:50:12 PM »

I believe that firing pins are hardened since they take a lot of abuse.

If so, then if they are not hardened properly, (following a strict process), then they could possibly be brittle causing premature breakage.