Very Low Velocity 38 Special Loads

[tn_junk]

I am looking for a very light plinking load for my 38 using HP38 powder and 125 grain cast bullets (wheel weights). The lowest (starting) load shown by Hodgdon is 3.8 grains.
How low can I go? Would it be safe to try a 1.5 grain load of HP38? What about using a .356 dia rather than .358 dia bullet. Could I then decrease the load more due to decreased pressure required to drive the bullet through the rifling?
I am new at this, and am not sure about reducing loads.

Thanks

alan

[coyotejoe]

All smokeless powders require a certain minimum pressure to burn consistantly, how much depends on the powder. With many powders you will start to get squib loads which won't even get out the barrel if you reduce the charge too much. When loads are near the borderline of minimum pressure you may fire hundreds of shots with no problem and then a squib with the bullet stuck in the bore. I don't know how light you could go with HP-38, I've always used Bullseye for light loads. You are running a light cast bullet which also reduces the pressure and will exaserbate the low pressure burning problem. If you're thinking in terms of Cowboy Action Shooting where you are trying for speed it is very easy to thumb and fire another shot before you have time to think "that last shot seemed odd". Then you have ruined a barrel by firing a bullet with one previously stuck in the bore. I would prefer to believe Hodgdon may just know what they are doing when they recomend a starting load of 3.8 grains, although they do list 2.6 grains in the .38 Long Colt and a .38 special revolver can fire the .38 Long Colt round.

[Larry Gibson]

Switch to Bullseye and use 1.5 gr.

Larry Gibson

[John Traveler]

Please pay attention to the warnings about squib loads!

In my younger days, I experimented plenty with minimum charge/low velocity loads in many calibers from .38 Special thru .45-70.  The point was to make minimum noise indoor and vermin shooting loads.  Round balls and fast pistol powders (Bullseye, WW231) gave the most consistent results.  Using a .356" inch diameter bullet instead of the nominal .358" in .38 Special produced more bullet-stuck-in-bore problems than I could shake a stick at!  After dozens of stuck bullets and carrying dowel rods and hammer to the shooting range, the rangemaster put a stop to my experiments by banning the firing of my squib loads for liability reasons.

Another reason for not shooting minimum velocity loads:  they tend to richochet badly.

[tn_junk]

I appreciate the info and the sage advice. I will switch to Bullseye before doing any very light loads.

alan

[Steve P]

I have not played with this stuff in quite a while, but I will give you some examples that have worked in the past.  You have to be careful and work these up in firearms in GOOD and SAFE condition.  You also have to be AWARE of the consequences of each shot BEFORE you fire a second. 

38 brass, 2 grains of bullseye, foam wad (cut these out of the foam trays you get in the meat department at the store.  I made my cutter with deprimed 357 brass with nail thru primer hole from inside.  cut about 4 and use the head of the nail to push the wads out of the case.)  .360 round ball.  I have used less powder, and also added balls.  Use the wad to hold the small amount of powder in place.  It disintegrates on firing where vegetable type wads do not.

I have a load worked up I call my triple shot.  Three fifty grain .356 bullets stacked.  At 25 yards, it makes a nice 2" group.  However, they will not completely penetrate a 2x4. Makes for a nasty wound but will not go thru the wall and retain enough power to hurt one of the neighbors.  These are specially made bullets that actually flatten on impact.  When stacked they look almost like a wadcutter bullet.

Another thing I have used for varmints in close is 38 brass, magnum primer, and wax bullet shot from a revolver with 2" barrel..  I size and prime my brass.  Then I stick the brass into a bar of parafin.  The brass case cuts out a nice cylinder of wax and the wax stays in the case.  At 20-30 feet, they make a good thumpping round.  My dad had a few crows and hawks messing with his bird feeders.  After they got bruised a few times by wax bullets, they quit coming in to the feeders.  Didn't kill these bigger birds, but does make a little pop and projectile smacks them hard enough to probably leave a bruise.

sixgunner.com is not working right now.  Paco Kelly had a few light loads listed in his articles.  Most of my stuff came from reading articles from people like Paco Kelly, Elmer Keith. etc.

Good luck, but stay safe.  DO NOT STICK A BULLET IN THE BARREL!!

Steve 

[stimpylu32]

Please pay attention to the warnings about squib loads!

In my younger days, I experimented plenty with minimum charge/low velocity loads in many calibers from .38 Special thru .45-70.  The point was to make minimum noise indoor and vermin shooting loads.  Round balls and fast pistol powders (Bullseye, WW231) gave the most consistent results.  Using a .356" inch diameter bullet instead of the nominal .358" in .38 Special produced more bullet-stuck-in-bore problems than I could shake a stick at!  After dozens of stuck bullets and carrying dowel rods and hammer to the shooting range, the rangemaster put a stop to my experiments by banning the firing of my squib loads for liability reasons.

Another reason for not shooting minimum velocity loads:  they tend to richochet badly.

JT

You make some very good points , one MUST be very careful when working with lower charged loads in 38 spl. , a few weeks ago i did the same thing and stuck a bullet in the barrel of my 3" S&W . It could have been ugly had someone gotten one of these loads and fired a full power load after it not knowing the bullet was stuck in the bore .

stimpy