Author Topic: optima elite hang fire  (Read 1221 times)

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Offline sassymassy

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optima elite hang fire
« on: February 29, 2008, 12:43:45 PM »
I just tried out my new 50 cal compact elite. On the 5th shot I had a hang fire. I removed the breech plug to find that the inside divot where the powder rest against was almost smoothed over with residue from the powder. It was liked caked in. I cleaned it out and ran a torch tip cleaner threw it. I also noticed that the hole is much smaller than my traditions rifle. I'm using 2 50 grain 777 pelts and I'm using Winchester 209 primers for 777. I was surprised to see this mess. Is this common for CV A's? I kinda like the ez of the pellets. Would it  help if I used loose powder or another brand? It's almost like the hole in the breech plug is to small. I love this gun and how it fits me. I'm really not interested in using black powder. Thank you Dennie

Offline Ol JohnnyBoy

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Re: optima elite hang fire
« Reply #1 on: February 29, 2008, 01:51:16 PM »
thats interesting. anybody know whats up with this?

Offline 1 id dog

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Re: optima elite hang fire
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2008, 09:11:30 AM »
Hello Sassymassy, Welcome to the neighborhood. I am no expert on the subject or even claim to be very knowledgeable on the subject. Until the past couple of weeks I have been a Traditionalist Muzzle Loader. I discovered recently my old eyes aren’t going to allow the effective use of iron sights. So I went full bore into the inline muzzle loaders. Your issue seems to be a common problem with the BP substitutes and not the gun. The BP substitutes seem to leave a lot more residue in the barrel for some reason. It is even a lot worse with standard 209 primers in some rifles. I’ve learned a great deal from reading and research. I have discovered that you need to swab the barrel between shots at the very least. I tend to over do things a little, but this is working very well for me. Between shots I brush the barrel out pretty good, Run (1) moistened patch down the bore, followed by a dry one. I’ve been considering even putting a little bore butter on a patch and doing that also after the dry patch. Also when I change bullets in working on loads I’ll do a wet patch cleaning and pull the breech plug to clean and relube. This maybe overkill, but once I have a load that I’m happy with accuracy wise, I’ll try other methods that will work in the deer stand as well. I realize that I have not directly answered your question exactly as to why this is happening, but it is the best I have for now. Perhaps someone will be able to answer exactly why BP substitutes are this way. I suspect it's simply that they just don't burn clean enough.

Offline mangulator

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Re: optima elite hang fire
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2008, 06:46:04 AM »
If, you use loose powder and stay away from pellets you will find the crud ring will not be so bad. I did use 777 pellets and they were miserable. I decide to use Pyrodex and had less problems with loose powder.

Offline Buckskins & Black Powder

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Re: optima elite hang fire
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2008, 11:17:45 AM »
I just tried out my new 50 cal compact elite. On the 5th shot I had a hang fire. I removed the breech plug to find that the inside divot where the powder rest against was almost smoothed over with residue from the powder. It was liked caked in. I cleaned it out and ran a torch tip cleaner threw it. I also noticed that the hole is much smaller than my traditions rifle. I'm using 2 50 grain 777 pelts and I'm using Winchester 209 primers for 777. I was surprised to see this mess. Is this common for CV A's? I kinda like the ez of the pellets. Would it  help if I used loose powder or another brand? It's almost like the hole in the breech plug is to small. I love this gun and how it fits me. I'm really not interested in using black powder. Thank you Dennie

You can try switching to the Federal or CCI Shotshell primer.

I personally like pyrodex best. Triple 7 always had to much build up on the face on my breach plug.

Offline oldrookie

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Re: optima elite hang fire
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2008, 07:31:29 AM »
I have a regular Optima and it has seen quite a few loads at the range. I am sure I have had a hang fire a few times, its the nature of muzzleloading. I would check the pellets for moisture. I have switched to 777 ffg and don't shoot pellets too much anymore. I did notice the box of pellets I do have, the pellets did want to stick together. Also, don't know for sure, but the white residue from pyrodex is sulfar. You won't find sulfar in 777. Hope this helps and have fun shooting.

Offline sassymassy

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Re: optima elite hang fire
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2008, 12:15:20 PM »
Thanks for the replies. When switching to a loose powder is it advisable to buy a powder measure or use my scales that I use for centerfie reloading? Correct me if I'm wrong but muzzle loading powder is measured in weight not in volume. So I would be more accurate to measure my charges with my powder scale. How much loose 777 or pyrodex are you guys using.  I'm shooting a 240 -250 grain bullet. Thanks again. Dennie

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: optima elite hang fire
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2008, 12:44:51 PM »
Blackpowder and substitutes are ALWAYS measure by volume, follow the firearm manufacturer's instructions for loads.

Tim

http://www.hodgdon.com/tripleseven/loadnote.php

WARNING - Before loading your firearm, stop, read and understand the instructions furnished with your firearm. If you do not have an owner's manual for your firearm, contact the manufacturer and request one. The owner's manual for your firearm should specify a maximum allowable load. Under no circumstances should this maximum be exceeded.

Make certain that there is no cap, primer or powder in the priming pan of the firearm. Make certain that the firearm is not already loaded.

All charges of Triple Seven should be measure by VOLUME not weight. A simple, adjustable black powder measure is the correct tool for this job. All loads listed in this brochure are measured by VOLUME.

Triple Seven is a high energy product designed to provide the muzzleloading hunter with higher velocities when used in the same VOLUME as black powder. To duplicate a black powder load velocity using Triple Seven, you must decrease the powder charge by 15%. *See WARNING below.

"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline oldrookie

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Re: optima elite hang fire
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2008, 05:34:54 AM »
Thanks for the replies. When switching to a loose powder is it advisable to buy a powder measure or use my scales that I use for centerfie reloading? Correct me if I'm wrong but muzzle loading powder is measured in weight not in volume. So I would be more accurate to measure my charges with my powder scale. How much loose 777 or pyrodex are you guys using.  I'm shooting a 240 -250 grain bullet. Thanks again. Dennie

I am not sure what max range you are looking for. I am setup for 100 yard max range. I measure by volume of 90g of 777 FFg, I use 777 primer and 300g xtp. Hornady packages the 250g and 300g with the recommended sabot. Here in Indiana, those looking for longer range will use 250g xtp or shockwave with tip. depending on your max distance requirement, I would start with 90g and adjust by 5g until you get the performance you want. My regular Optima prefers to be dirty. I only spit patch between loads. Some like to use windex or some other cleaning solution between shots. Good luck and have some fun!