Author Topic: Jinxed on the Weekend. (Read 2101 times)

NONYA · « **Reply #30 on:** November 20, 2007, 04:08:07 PM »

He made it very clear,he thinks the large majority of the guys who use magnum caliber rifles and scopes over 9x are slob hunters.

Bingo · « **Reply #31 on:** November 20, 2007, 05:20:29 PM »

It sounds to me like he has seen to many guys that think hunting is a mocho thing and go out hunting when they know nothing about hunting. I've seen yupies with expensive toys and poor jerks with old $100 surplus military junk. Neither of them belong in the field without a mentor to teach them a few things but they are out there. They are something we have to deal with like it or not.

What we need to do is report them if possible, Teach them when possible and try to be civil when possible.

I have taken deer from 15 ft. to 350 yards some with a bow others with a gun. I have just built a stand and have been practicing with my 25-06 for a 500+ yard shot. I have watched deer at that range for years but have never had the gun to take that shot. The 25-06 will do it and I can do it if the conditions are right.

I have taken more deer than I could really keep count of. I have never lost a deer and have only had to track one that I shot and that was my first deer. It went about 100 yards.

We have all found wounded deer and it makes us mad. We blow off a little steam and move on. Lets not major in minors. Good hunters kill clean. Bad hunters screw up! The range and tha calibre are a mute point.

Just let the guy vent a little steam and don't be so thin skinned!

Fred M · « **Reply #32 on:** November 20, 2007, 05:47:24 PM »

Quote.
Its terrible how these young guy's pick on us defenseless old codger's. Digger.

I will not defend what I said since none of you were there and I stick with
what I said. You can hypothesize all you want, I will not oppose any of your comments even the nasty ones. On second thought I regret ever posting this story. If any of you are offended by what I said about magnum rifles and big scopes then just look in the mirror and see if the shoe fits.

I am not against Magnum rifles since I shot a 300Wby MkV with a 4x Leupold for 25 years; a torn rotator cuff stopped me using it. This rifle was a truly one shot hunting rifle. It was on the second barrel when I sold it. This was not the only Magnum I had but it was the one I used most. Never ever had to track down a game animal with this rifle and I only remember one shot on a moose
I missed, don’t know why? The rifle killed moose, elk, caribou, black bears, grizzly bear, and all sorts of deer and antelope.

The rifle saw its most use shooting coyotes in the winter with 196gr match bullets. We averaged 5 coyotes with 20 shots out to 400yrds or more on the wind swepped prairie. So I did know how to use a Magnum and still rate
myself two out of a hundred.

Yesterday I made another one shot kill on a nice WT doe with my new made from parts 7x57 Ruger #1, first kill and a fine neck shot with this rifle using shooting sticks at about 100 yards with 140gr Nosler Partition.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #33 on:** November 20, 2007, 05:53:47 PM »

Congrats on the 7x57 kill, Fred!! I envy you getting out and making meat with several rifles each year.

Tim

Fred M · « **Reply #34 on:** November 20, 2007, 06:23:28 PM »

Thanks Tim.

Yes I like using different rifles. Had the 375Win #3 along, but the new stand the guys build was being used so I hunted along the fields with the 7x57
which presents usually shots out to 200yards plus and the 7x57 needed to
be tested in the field, and what a fine job it did.

I have one Mulie tag left, don't know whether I get use it, only five hunting days left and so far nobody wants the meat.

That new Burris Full Field II with the ballistic plex is a real dandy. Some day I will put targets up at 300 and 400 yrds to calibrate the extra ballistic x-marks.
That is what the book says.

NONYA · « **Reply #35 on:** November 20, 2007, 06:52:33 PM »

"You can hypothesize all you want" seems you are the one doing this....Never said you had a problem with magnum calibers,you have a problem with the hunters who choose to use them.
"If any of you are offended by what I said about magnum rifles and big scopes then just look in the mirror and see if the shoe fits."
By this do you mean everyone who chooses to use them or just the large percentage of us that you see at the range who shouldnt be hunting at all?
I still would like to know how you deduced that this certain sect of hunters wounded the deer you found,do you have any real evidence or just usin it as an excuse to b^&%$ about something you dont aprove of?
I dont know what kind of company you keep but i know quite a few magnum shooters and 100% of them are VERY capable with them,even with those 12x scopes they still manage to make one shot kills,just like you.You should regret your "zumboism",you included myself a huge group of hunters nationwide and almost every guy I hunt with when you generalized about magnum caliber rifles and high mag scopes.
"In my experience over the years watching magnum shooters at the range and in the fields, there is only about one or two hunters in a hundred that can
make a clean killing shot under field conditions on game. Are you one of them?" Fred aka Jim Zumbo

BTW you know you could donate that last mulie doe to the food bank,they love wild game donations.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #36 on:** November 20, 2007, 07:36:06 PM »

Quote

You can hypothesize all you want, I will not oppose any of your comments even the nasty ones

No offense Fred...but... you really need to come here and see how well many folks shoot long range...and all the trouble & fuss they go thru to get their rifles to shoot well enough...I know for a fact there are some real brain dead folks in the hunting world...and BD people with magnums...but ...1 out of 100 that can shoot accurately enough to hunt long range ( at least around here ) isn't a fair assessment of the LR hunting crowd...nor is it totally fair to naturally assume the deer where shot at long range either...You may have idiots up there that do those things...but I would bet it doesn't happen as much as you think by dedicated long rang hunters...and probably more so by folks with standard calibers and lower power scopes...Accidents happen...by the best of us...but...most true LR hunters will search out any wounded animal...before hunting anything else..Sometimes a wounded animal will move out of the area completely...and leave little to no trace for recovery...I have seen this on miss hit deer with standard calibers...and have spent days helping them to track it...YUP...days... only to loose the animals trail completely...and finally find the deer after season...One of the several I have helped in the past was a young man of 17... He was using a 307 Winchester that he had been using for the past 3 years...and put 2 rounds into it...He didn't shoot anything else that season...He was that upset with himself...I can also tell you of the dozens of deer I have seen wounded by drunk/sob shooters...I don't consider them hunters at all.....Or of all the deer I have seen in the past shot up with 1 oz slugs...some with over 10 shots in them...(both the deer & the shooter)...or of the mutilated deer carcases from being shot multiple times with 30-30's...All of these types of people are who give this sport a bad name...and while you may dislike the fact of folks who frequently shoot from afar now that you can't...you have to accept the reality that your not the only one capable of doing so..otherwise it will seem you think your better than many of us...I truly hope this isn't the case...because if it is...then you need to get off your high horse a little buddy......BTW...I've lost 2 deer shooting long range...neither was to just wounding...1 was lost in the Mississippi when he ran to...and started across a channel...only to be hit by a barge...The other was to a game thief...who got to my deer before I could..Both were good sized deer a nice 10 pointer...and a very large 12pointer...both had been hit in the middle of the lungs...1 shot with a 257 Weatherby...the other with a 270 Winchester...both had 12x scopes on them..both were shot over 450 yards away...both had normal killing shots...and good blood trails...1 on private land...the other on public land...so...in reality...I can't say I really lost a deer long range do to a bad shot...Am I lucky...maybe...but I prefer to think I'm am proficient enough to know when I can make the shot and not wound...as to just being lucky...

Mac

cascadedad · « **Reply #37 on:** November 20, 2007, 09:15:00 PM »

Up to here, this is a great post and I really feel for the position/situation you had to deal with.

Quote from: Fred M on November 18, 2007, 07:30:21 AM

Jinxed on the weekend.
Shooting two wounded deer has never happened to me before. Both deer
were in a state of advanced putrescent.
Both stank terrible and were not fit for human consumption. Both deer
suffered at least one week or more.

This is a rant that has nothing to do with the above.

Quote

From the terrain around them they were shot at from long range 300yrd pus by hunters with big scopes and magnum power.

In my experience over the years watching magnum shooters at the range and in the fields, there is only about one or two hunters in a hundred that can
make a clean killing shot under field conditions on game. Are you one of them?

The above experience made me completely ill and spoiled my day; I did get a nice doe early in the morning. Hunting was tough in the high wind conditions were the game hides. I toke all the three deer with the 257 R Handi one shot each.

I never can recall a situation were I could not get a closer shot. Never ever where I needed a more powerful scope than 3-9 for deer and I been hunting deer for 55years. If you need more than 9 power scope you are too far away.

Shooting deer is not target practice, but an endeavor to humanly take a deer with a fatal single shot. The braggarts that claim to make killing shots every time at 300yrds plus are simply liars and those are the ones that wound game and don’t even make an effort to track a wounded animal down.

Perhaps these are strong words, but that is the way I see it.

Fred, as I have said before, I shoot an inline MLer without a scope. For me, it a 100 yard gun, with the possibility of a slightly farther shot if the conditions are perfect. I have a rangefinder strapped around my neck when I hunt and if I am in doubt, I'll use it before shooting. So, I really don't fit into the group that you are ranting about. I just think your point is wrong.

As I have tried to state before, there are SLOB HUNTERS in EVERY group of hunters. Meaning archery, MLer, centerfire and every subset of those.

You know, even if you SAW a guy do it AND the situation was JUST as you described, it would still be NO reason to go on that kind of rant about "magnum guns" and "big scopes". It was NOT the "magnum gun" or the "big scope" that did it, it was the slob holding it.

Fred M · « **Reply #38 on:** November 24, 2007, 07:06:16 AM »

Oh Yah, I really dig the 12x and 16x scopes for the sole purpose of wounding
game at 300 plus yards and then have them run off to reach the Mississippi
River to get killed in the middle of the river by a barge. Or have the deer run
off wounded and get shot by another hunter and tagged, simply because the first shooter was so far away he had no chance to follow up.

A 4x scope will do just fine even on a 300Wby, you wont be wearing a
Wby eye-brow.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #39 on:** November 24, 2007, 07:18:54 AM »

Quote from: Fred M on November 24, 2007, 07:06:16 AM

Oh Yah, I really dig the 12x and 16x scopes for the sole purpose of wounding
game at 300 plus yards and then have them run off to reach the Mississippi
River to get killed in the middle of the river by a barge. Or have the deer run
off wounded and get shot by another hunter and tagged, simply because the first shooter was so far away he had no chance to follow up.

A 4x scope will do just fine even on a 300Wby, you wont be wearing a
Wby eye-brow.

Since your directing this at me Fred because of what happen to me ...let me explain here..since you have no clue what your referencing...and are making a total ass out of yourself in the process...The deer that hit the river...ran on it's normal escape route...going from the fields that borders the Mississippi river..across the channel to a large island which is a refuge...this was on private land not public...and the deer utilized what he though it safe to do.....The deer that got tagged by a game thief...was followed up right after the shot...and I was on public land...It was tagged by a slob hunter...I wasn't too far away from him...I had the deer stolen from me ...Next time you reference something I said...and try to make some thing derogatory out of it...don't...since it obvious you don't have a clue about what your talking about...

Mac

Fred M · « **Reply #40 on:** November 24, 2007, 07:41:28 AM »

Ah, the shoe fits. The wounded deer ran off. I don't mind making an ass off myself, but I do know what I am talking about when it comes to big x-mag
scopes and long range deer wounding.

I am wondering who needs to get off his high and mighty horse.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #41 on:** November 24, 2007, 09:39:17 AM »

Fred,

I moved your posts and Mac's responding post to your original thread since your replies have nothing to do with HickoryNut's thread. I do think you're a bit over the top here, so please let it go.

Tim

Nightstalker6117 · « **Reply #42 on:** November 24, 2007, 03:00:20 PM »

OK I said I wasn't going to say anything else but ummmmm Fred what are you saying now.... hahaha I cant help but regret standing up for you because now all that I thought you were saying has been changed with your recent post. NONYA and cascade my apologies, it appears that yall were correct. Like I said I have no problems with high powered scopes or magnum rifles as long as they are in the proper hands.AKA I have a problem with bad hunte..... umm i mean idiots with guns. Fred I am sorry but I dont know what you are talking about now. .... huh I dont know what else to say...

McLernon · « **Reply #43 on:** November 24, 2007, 03:43:33 PM »

I don't want to prolong this thread but I think that one thing in all the preceding really rings true with me. "Hunting is not target practice' really hits on something close to me. (1) I believe that hunters should practice at the ranges AND in the manner/style that they are going to shoot in a hunting situation? ie still shots vrs moving shots- off-hand and seated etc. If not, pass on shots outside your repertoire(2) As hunters we have a special responsibility to respect the game we are trying to harvest and to act humanely towards them at all times.

End of 'sermon'

My $0.02(CDN)

Mc

NONYA · « **Reply #44 on:** November 24, 2007, 03:48:38 PM »

Yep never been a deer wounded with a 4x scope at 100 yards,you really have tunnel vision Fred,or a complete lack of experience of competent hunters with magnum rifles and high X scopes.

NONYA · « **Reply #45 on:** November 24, 2007, 03:49:46 PM »

You and Zumbo should start a new blog...

Fred M · « **Reply #46 on:** November 24, 2007, 05:32:34 PM »

you really have tunnel vision Fred,or a complete lack of experience of competent hunters with magnum rifles and high X scopes.

Yah like the guy shooting a deer with a big x scope and have it run for the river and get run over by a barge. Is that the kind of competent hunters
you talk about. Where about did you gather your knowledge about
magnums with big scopes. How many do yo have.

Ok no matter what, this thread has tunred into disgusting BS pool you will
hear from me no more on this, perhaps it is time to leave the premises for good.

NONYA · « **Reply #47 on:** November 24, 2007, 06:17:34 PM »

I own and hunt with my 7mm RM ,8mm RM and my 300 wm,all but the 8mag have scopes over 9x,I have killed deer and elk with all 3,I have never lost a wounded game animal with any of them.I routinely shoot 300+ yards as do my hunting partners,we dont loose game and we dont have any barges to run them over.It is a pool of BS,yours.

30-06man · « **Reply #48 on:** November 24, 2007, 06:46:06 PM »

Quote from: McLernon on November 24, 2007, 03:43:33 PM

I don't want to prolong this thread but I think that one thing in all the preceding really rings true with me. "Hunting is not target practice' really hits on something close to me. (1) I believe that hunters should practice at the ranges AND in the manner/style that they are going to shoot in a hunting situation? ie still shots vrs moving shots- off-hand and seated etc. If not, pass on shots outside your repertoire(2) As hunters we have a special responsibility to respect the game we are trying to harvest and to act humanely towards them at all times.

End of 'sermon'

My $0.02(CDN)

Mc

I agree 100%. Now if you haven't practiced at the ranges you are talking about shooting its simple don't shoot. Nonya I have to say you are right if you practice at those ranges. If you are competent at that range and have a gun that will perform then you can take the shot ethically then do it which I am sure your are. As far as some people that hunt practice at short ranges and take these long shots that they have no experience with should not be shooting at those ranges. They have a false sense of security. I have rifles that will shoot past 350 yards but I don't ever shoot that far because 1 there is no ranges that long around here, 2nd longest shot is 125 yards and 3rd well I covered it already. I am not against long shots or magnum rifles or high powered scopes but what I have a problem with is the person pulling the trigger that hasn't practiced in the ranges they are tring to take game at, that is unethical.

That's what I think. That's all I have to say.

Quote from: quickdtoo on November 24, 2007, 09:39:17 AM

Fred,

I moved your posts and Mac's responding post to your original thread since your replies have nothing to do with HickoryNut's thread. I do think you're a bit over the top here, so please let it go.

Tim

I agree here too. Too much has been said I believe.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #49 on:** November 24, 2007, 07:36:29 PM »

Quote from: Fred M on November 24, 2007, 05:32:34 PM

you really have tunnel vision Fred,or a complete lack of experience of competent hunters with magnum rifles and high X scopes.

Yah like the guy shooting a deer with a big x scope and have it run for the river and get run over by a barge. Is that the kind of competent hunters
you talk about. Where about did you gather your knowledge about
magnums with big scopes. How many do yo have.

Ok no matter what, this thread has tunred into disgusting BS pool you will
hear from me no more on this, perhaps it is time to leave the premises for good.

Now I am incompetent...because I shot a deer less than 100 yards from the river and it ran to it and attempted to swim across it... I didn't expect him to run to the river...I'm not God...I can make an educated guess most of the time...and most of the time I am correct...but...like I said...I have lost 2...and both times they were normal killing shots...both left good blood trails...both under normal circumstances I would have tagged...I don't have the power to stop river traffic...otherwise I would have...I've also seen deer that were shot...cross fences onto private property and folks were unable to retrieve them because the landowner said no tress passing......or out to a road to be struck by a car...does that make these folks incompetent as well...Your ASININE statements are getting way out of line.... Also...I'm not the person who found a deer carcass and automatically assumed it was done by someone with a high magnification scope & magnum caliber rifle...What I do hear is someone from a anti gun country who is belittling hunters here in this country for shooting the rifles & scopes of their choice...which is our right to do...What's next Fred...saying magnum rifles & high power scopes should be outlawed...

I don't give a tinkers damn wither you don't or feel the need any longer to hunt this way.....the point of the matter is many of us here do...and anyone could have shot that deer with any type of rifle or scope...

Your right Fred...this has turned into a disgusting BS pool...and your the one filling it...

Mac

Foggy · « **Reply #50 on:** November 24, 2007, 08:03:41 PM »

As GBO turns

quickdtoo · « **Reply #51 on:** November 24, 2007, 08:20:36 PM »