.300 savage

[lakestatebob]

I'm not a reloader, but was wondering for those that are, with the powders now available is it possible to improve performance to .308 levels?

[32-20]

In a modern bolt action you could probably step the 300sav. up a bit, but why would you want to ?The 300 sav. was never meant to be loaded to 308 pressures, and could ruin an older rifle chambered for it.The 300 is a classic and does a fine job just as it is. 

[Mikey]

32-20 x 2.  Mikey.

[beemanbeme]

+3    I have the Classic with a vintage Weaver 1.5x4.5 scope. With a 150gr Core Lokt bullet, it is big medicine.

[Don Fischer]

+4. After you soup your 300 sav up to 308 then you could soup up the 308 to 30-06. If ya want a 308 the thing to do is get a 308.

[The Gamemaster]

In 1920 - when the 300 Savage was brand new.  It was known then as a HIGH POWER.
That was all my grand pap called his.

It might not be as big a case as a 308 Winchester, but it did deliver good performance.

Theory might tell us that the bigger the case, the more powder we can dump in and the more performance we can expect out of it.  But in the case of the 300 Savage I would have to disagree.

What we look for when we reload a case is what the chamber pressure is of that case and stay below the 55,000 CUP.

It doesn't matter if it is a 22 Hornet or a 416 Rigby.

The velocity of that caliber a weapon is right on for killing whitetail deer and bears and even a Elk or two.  You just have to make sure that you get close enough to do it.

Here is what Wikipedia has to say about it.

Performance
Pressure level for the .300 Savage is set by SAAMI at 46,000 CUP.[5] The .308 Winchester operates at a higher pressure of 52,000 CUP, which is one of the basic reasons it outperforms the .300 Savage.

History
The original intent of its designers was to offer a cartridge that could approach the ballistics of the .30-06 Springfield, while at the same time utilizing a smaller case that could be cycled through a short-action lever rifle. Although it fell somewhat short of its ballistic goals (by about 150 ft/s), its performance outclassed other contemporary .30 caliber lever-action cartridges including the .30-30 Winchester and .30 Remington. It soon became a popular deer and medium-sized game cartridge among North American hunters, and by mid century nearly every major US firearms maker offered a .300 Savage chambering in at least one of its rifle models.[2]

The .300 Savage distinguished itself further by serving as the parent to the .308 Winchester (7.62 mm NATO) cartridge, a round that was developed for the US armed forces in the 1950s and which is still in use today.[3]

[The Gamemaster]

Maybe the only reason why people never thought of a 300 Savage as a kids gun was because so many people associated it with HIGH POWER.

Back when I was a kid, you could buy a new 30/30 Winchester or Marlin for about $55.00
A new Remington Gamemaster 30/06 - 270 was $99.00

A new Model 99 Savage might have been as much as $175.00

The old people remembered the depression and their kids lived it.

They were not going to go out and spend $175 on a Model 99 Savage when they could spend $55.00 at the local Kmart and buy a new 30/30 for 1/3 of the price.

If people were not so infatuated with speed and performance, they would still make the Model 99 and the 300 Savage today as a standard caliber firearm by all manufacturers.

[Siskiyou]

My Dad had .300 Savages around for a long time and of three when he gave us boys his rifles, I selected the bolt action Remington 722 because I feel out of the bunch it was the best to reload for.  The others were a Model 81, and a M99.  I rather doubt the barrel steel in my Model 722 is any different then in the 6mm Remington, 257 Roberts, .222 Remington, and the .308 manufacture in the same period by Remington. 

I have had good results with AA2015, IMR4320, and IMR4064.  My hunting loads are based on near maximum loads from three generations of Hornady Manual, including the most current. In addition I have check data in other manuals.   I have settled on IMR4064. 

The velocity from the 24-inch barrel gives the .308 a run for its money when the .308 is fired from a 22-inch barrel.  The fact is that when it comes to barrel length the extra two inches count. 

Going backward a lot of years a brother was deadly on deer with a Savage M99, 300 Savage, with a 20-inch barrel.  The same brother recently acquired a Remington 760 in .300 Savage and plans on loading recommended loads using 150-grain bullets with IMR4895 or H4895.

I have spent a lot of time developing my .300 Savage hunting loads, but I would not recommend that my brother start out with them.  He is an experience loader who will systematically develop a load(s).  He has been loading for over 40-years and has used a far greater selection of powders then I have. 

There is a big bunch of powders that fall in and around the IMR4895, and IMR4064 burning rate.  They have targeted these powders because they fit a need, and there is a market for them.  The question is are they any better?  I rather doubt that the industry is spending money on .300 Savage load development.

A quote from Speer Manual #12.  “We found that two newer propellants, Reloader 15 and VihtaVuori N140 allow up to 100 feet/sec velocity gains with heavier bullets compared to other powders.”

[jro45]

Each Gun likes different Powder. You'll choose one that you heard is a good one for your rifle. Then try it out. If you've chosen the right one Then more power to you.

If you want a 308 then buy one.

[rickt300]

I had an early M99 in 300. I loaded it with 150 grain Speer bullets and Winchester 748 powder to 2750 fps. If the rifle had not been ruined in a fire I would still be knocking deer over with it. I also at the time had a 308 Ruger RSI with a 18 1/2 inch barrel that could just match the 2750 fps/150 grain bullet loading and it took 3 more grains of powder. You will give up a mere 100 fps with the 300 compared to the 308, so what?

[lakestatebob]

so it sounds like the .300 is good enough as is.  I was just curious with new powders being talked about.  Anyway I have a beautiful model 99 that is begging to be used.  I have in the past used 180grain coreloks.  Would I be better to use the 150 grain?   I used the 180s "cause years ago I read they would be better in the thick stuff.  Now that I'm older I'm not so sure I buy that anymore.  How far would you feel comfortable using this on elk?

[Sweetwater]

I have an associate in Wyoming who inherited his Grandfather's 99Savage chambered in 300Savage. With it came a reloading outfit and numerous boxes of loaded ammunition marked accordingly; 150's for deer and antelope - 180's for elk. The 10years that have elapsed since the inheritance, he has acquired other rifles, but the Savage always gets to go with 150's for deer/antelope and 180's for elk. He believes it's only limitations are his limitations with it. Be the Hunter and practice, practice, practice.

Regards,
Sweetwater

[beemanbeme]

What sweetwater said +1. 
I've never killed an elk with a .300 Savage and I've never killed an elk at too much over 100 yards anyway so I can't say how far the effective range might be.
  Let's say you're driving the 180gr bullet @ 2400fps, with a 200 yard zero, you'd be down 11" at 300 yards and your energy would be at 1400#, however, at 400 yards your drop would be 32".(I'm reading this out of the Hornady load book)  so maybe it would be more of a could you hit the elk and could you hit it in a precise spot.  I'd be inclined to creep quite a bit closer. 

[lakestatebob]

thanks thats good information.  I'm a Michigan boy, so most of our stuff is deer at less than 100 yards.  I think I would be hard pressed to take a 300 yard shot because I never practice at  more than 100.  I think I will try some 150 grainers this year and maybe even a few shots at 200yards as I am qurious at the accuracy of this gun

[Ron T.]

Bob.....

Since you don't reload, I'd go with the Remington factory loads using 150 grain bullet (Coreloks are fine) for deer.  And since the vast majority of your shots will be less than 100 yards, I'd "zero" the rifle "dead on" at 100 yards.  That way, you can hold "dead on" where you want the bullet to strike out to about 130 or 140 yards.

If the factory loads give you their stated muzzle velocity (2630 fps) with a 150 grain bullet, and you prefer to set your rifle up for longer shots, you could sight in your rifle to hit 2-3/4 inches high at 100 yards, your bullet should be "dead on" at about 225 yards and 3 inches low at 265 yards... i.e., the bullet will never rise above or fall below the line-of-sight more than 3 inches from the muzzle of your rifle out to 265 yards.  This is where I sight-in my Model 99 "just-in-case" I get that very occasional "long shot" along the open, "clear-cut" area of a pipeline or a high-tension line in Pennsylvania. 

I'd guess most deer are killed (in Mich.) at 80 yards or less (mostly less) from my hunting experience in Michigan just as they are in Pennsylvania where I have hunted whitetails for the past 10 years or so with a Model 99 Savage in .300 Savage... or in Ohio where I live and where my sons hunt the whitetails with bows or muzzle-loaders, depending on the season.  A lot depends on the area where you hunt.

Good luck in the upcoming whitetail season...   


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

[lakestatebob]

thanks guys -  good advice!