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Author Topic: 444 Marlin and 45-70 Gov  (Read 954 times)

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Offline jjamna

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444 Marlin and 45-70 Gov
« on: December 22, 2007, 04:52:30 PM »
Can I use 444 Marlin load data for a 45-70 Gov  Marlin 1895 Cowboy. I would like to load some lighter than 300 gr--- 230 to be precise.
All my load data starts at 300 grain. I think they both are the same action.
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Offline Chris Potts

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Re: 444 Marlin and 45-70 Gov
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2007, 06:14:19 PM »
Load data for the 444 and 45-70 are not interchangable.  They have different case capacities and are loaded to different pressures.  I did not realize that anyone made .458 bullets in 230 gr.  Are you sure that it is not .451-2 for the .45 LC or .45 ACP.

Chris
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: 444 Marlin and 45-70 Gov
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2007, 11:10:10 PM »
absoultely not. You can get a loading manual for 20 bucks! even if you cant afford it you can go to any powder manufactures web sight and get loading data for there powders.
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Offline Mikey

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Re: 444 Marlin and 45-70 Gov
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2007, 02:41:08 AM »
No!  As in absolutely not.  I second Lloyd and Chris.  Mikey.
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Offline jjamna

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Re: 444 Marlin and 45-70 Gov
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2007, 04:44:59 AM »
I have 4 loading Manuel's and they are more than 20 bucks.  I didn't think so but I heard someone say the actions were the same. The Hornady 7Th edition shows 12 grains differance between the two minimum loads. The 230 grain bullet is for a 45 ACP but it cast's at .456 I size it to .452 for the 45. My 45-70 slugs at .457 so unsized it should shoot ok.
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Offline handirifle

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Re: 444 Marlin and 45-70 Gov
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2007, 10:51:09 AM »
If the barrel slugs at .457 and the bullet is .456 I think you'll be wasting your time and powder.  The cast bullet needs to be larger than bore dia or it will not stabilize.  If you start getting below 250gr (the lightest I've seen data for) you're almost getting into a round ball in the 45-70.  What little bi of velocity you gain you'll lose very quickly due to poor ballistic coeffecient.

If it flatter trajectory you're after, or less recoil, then go to a lighter caliber.  You can't make a 308 out of the 45-70.
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Offline jjamna

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Re: 444 Marlin and 45-70 Gov
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2007, 11:14:32 AM »
I GIVE-----------I Will load the 405 grain with 12 grains of Trail Boss. I am not after a 308 I have a 308 by the way I load it to 300 savage data- don't tell me you can't do that cause I know you can
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 444 Marlin and 45-70 Gov
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2007, 11:54:33 AM »
Quote from: jjamna on December 22, 2007, 04:52:30 PM
Can I use 444 Marlin load data for a 45-70 Gov  Marlin 1895 Cowboy. I would like to load some lighter than 300 gr--- 230 to be precise.
All my load data starts at 300 grain. I think they both are the same action.

If you want lighter bullets for the 45-70, you'll want something made for it that is sized properly, the collar button is one bullet that will work for that. ;)

Tim

http://www.westernbullet.com/cbip/b457130.html

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Offline deernhog

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Re: 444 Marlin and 45-70 Gov
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2007, 12:21:25 PM »
If the 230 grains come out of your mold at .456.  smelting the lead at a very high temp might have the bullets over size to .457 or .458. I have a Lee 405 gr hb .459 mold that will oversize to .461 if the lead is at extreme temp.
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Offline Keith L

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Re: 444 Marlin and 45-70 Gov
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2007, 06:48:39 AM »
This thread deteriorated into a mess, so I removed several posts.  Lets leave it at use proper loading data for the caliber and gun you are using.   Further, no name calling or other personal attacks will be tolerated here, or posts intended on starting arguments or flame wars.  See the rules for posting at the top of the forum under "stickies."  Lets play nice guys.

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Offline deernhog

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Re: 444 Marlin and 45-70 Gov
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2007, 09:33:15 AM »
My bad and it won't happen again.
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Offline jjamna

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Re: 444 Marlin and 45-70 Gov
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2007, 01:51:07 PM »
Keith--- My deepest apologies if I got carried away. Some had good points, some didn't have a clue and I got aggravated. Again my apologies and a GREAT BIG MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL AT GRAYBEARDS
Jeff McBride
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