45 Colt loads for 45/410 Survivor

[HodagHunter]

My .45LC/.410 Survivor is built on the SB1 frame which I understand to be weaker than the SB2 rifle frame.    Can the SB1 withstand 45 Colt +P pressure?  Just  hot can I handload my 45 Colt cartridges?

[quickdtoo]

Welcome to GBO! I would give H&R a call and see what their recommendation is, the long freebore will likely negate any pressure issue tho.

Toll free (866)776-9292 they'll be closed Dec 24th.

Tim

[HodagHunter]

Thanks, Tim.  I was going to blow out the neck on 9.3x74R brass; in this case the freebore will be minimized.   My plan was to load them only to performance level of 45 Colt +P.   Has anyone else tried this?

[quickdtoo]

That definitely wouldn't be a good idea, the SB1 frame isn't heat treated to handle pressures much more than shotguns are capable of, that's very low pressure, 14kpsi, compared to twice that for the 45 Colt +P loads, you'd be risking catastrophic failure of the frame doing that. Even if you put the barrel on an SB2 frame, there's too much difference between the 9.3 brass and the chamber of the 45 Colt barrel, you'd risk case ruptures in the oversize chamber. The pressure is compounded by the much bigger firing pin and required larger hole in the frame for it, that alone has caused serious problems with folks trying to shoot higher pressure chambered barrels on frames meant for shotgun pressures.

Tim

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/saami_pressures.htm

http://ammoguide.com/?catid=420

http://ammoguide.com/?catid=33

[HodagHunter]

Tim,

The 9.3 x 74R wildcat I mention is in the same spirit as the .450 Mongo which is simply a 444 Marlin case necked up to .452.  Either wildcat can be loaded to the 45 Colt level and give minimum freebore. 

What I gather from you is that the +P variant of 45 Colt exceeds the capabilities of the SB1 frame.  Thanks for clearing that up.

[creekwalker]

Interesting information as I have wondered what frame the 410/45 Colt used. So given this information could one than have a NEF rifle frame re-barreled for the 410/45 Colt and go forward with such a wildcat cartridge as indicated or not? Even if such a combination were fabricated would it prove to be a good combination?

I ponder this as I intend to send a NEF frame in for a 45/70 barrel and am still undecided about additional barrels and calibers as I've never owned a H&R or NEF product. Mostly owned and shot Ruger #1's and a Browning 78 in 45/70 (past tense), but am drawn to the simplicity and versatility of the H&R and NEF rifles and shotguns.

Best

Creekwalker

[quickdtoo]

That would be my recommendation, unless you already have an SB2 frame, instead of spending money and time on a 410/45Colt barrel that only has a bead front sight, and isn't drilled and tapped for a scope,  just buy a 45-70 Handi or BC, or the 45 Colt Carbine or get an accessory barrel if you do have an SB2 frame.

My 45 Colt carbine barrel will soon get rechambered to 460S&W.....if and when Fred ever gets me a reamer.

Tim

http://hr1871.com/Firearms/Rifles/buffalo.aspx

[creekwalker]

Wow, I hadn't’t even considered the 460 S&W, I’ll have to keep that ideal in mind. Now the 357 re chambered to a 357 Maximum is something I’ve been pondering though. Regardless, a 45/70 barrel is my first priority any others are icing on the cake. Thank’s for all of the information.
Creekwalker
 

[Boss 577]

I had a 45/410 chromed Survivor with scope mount, I used 454 Casull in it for a while ,I see that is not recommended but it worked for me ,it had a small firing pin  ,I later made up a long 45 on 30R Blaser case,s fit just right to get passed free bore ,was more accurate !
I tried the 9.3X 74 (necked it up,not fire formed )I don,t think the case is a perfect fit, but it worked with lighter loads .

[quickdtoo]

I had a 45/410 chromed Survivor

You mean nickel plated, they don't make a chrome plated frame.

Tim