lever action side mount

[pcking78]

     Alright, I know that I will get plenty of replies instructing me to just use a peep sight, but I have a pre-angle eject win 94 that I would like to mount a scope on.  I need a lightweight rifle to carry around in the N. GA mountains for deer and bear.  While it will be in the woods, the trees are open enough to allow for some occasional long shots.  I feel like the extra magnification of a scope helps direct a shot through narrow lanes between tree limbs, etc.  I considered an XS scout mount but it requires permanent changes to the gun.
     Anyway, is anyone out there actually happy with their win 94 side-mounted scope??  How hard is it to sight in??
 My back-up plan is to get a handi-rifle in either 45-70 or maybe 7mm-08.

  All opinions are welcome, thanks.

[Pathfinder6.5]

The side mount is not that difficult. I do not recall the brand of mine (it was installed in the '60s), but it uses the existing holes. I have a low power scope (2X I think) mounted on it that works nicely. For use on bear I would not want much more in the way of magnification.

Sighting it in...well, I had someone bore sight it and it would not cut paper. I finally got over to the 25 yard line and shot it with the iron sights off of bags. The I would line it up on the bags and crank the scope until it was close to what I saw on the iron sights. Maybe somebody who knew what they were doing would do better trying to bore sight it.

I recommend it.

[handirifle]

I inherited a 94 Big Bore in 375 Win from my father.  He had a side mount red dot scope on it.  he told me it was dead on at 75 yards.  The scope mounted this way would HAVE to be like a side by side shotgun.  Somewhere down the line the shots will move from left to right, because you're not sighting down the bore, but rather across it.

I know how you feel about drilling and tapping for the XS, but if this were not an inherited rifle I'd do it in a heartbeat.  I may anyway, but just got new glasses and the Williams FP sight might be easier to use, I will see.

As for the side scope, I'd say it will limit your range far more than any other type of mount, because of the cross aim.

All it will take is a drill and tap of the front of the receiver, the rest of the XS goes in the dovetail slot of the rear sight.

[pcking78]

    I was thinking about trying the nikon prostaff 2-7x shotgun scope. it seems that if the mount is 2 inches wide of the bore, I sight it dead on at 100 yds., then it will only be 2 inches wide the opposite side at 200 yds., which is about the maximum for a 30-30 anyway.
       This rifle is an early 70's model that was my father's.  I still wouldn't mind drilling and tapping for the xS mount, but as I understand it there is also some epoxy involved.  That just sounds like a little much in the way of permanent change to a rifle I inherited.
    Thanks for the replies.  Any other opinions on the side mounts?

[GTaylor]

The "work around" for side mounted scopes that I am aware of is to rotate the scope such that the crosshair is bisecting the bore.   Then, on firing, the rifle is canted to the right so that the crosshairs are vertical and horizontal.  It feels a bit odd at first, but you get used to it. 




edited to change word to work

[Rangr44]

[I understand it there is also some epoxy involved.]

The XS LeverScout mount for Winchester M-94's  includes a tube of epoxy, and instructions to D/T 2 holes inline with the bore atop the front receiver ring, and epoxy the base to the barrel - provided the rear sight dovetail is approx 4" forward of the receiver edge.

The reason for the epoxy is to support the straight base over all possible contours of existing M94 barrels, and for strength & dependabiity.

I know of one guy who didn't want to permanently attach the mount to a .450 Marlin M94 Timber (I know, epoxy can be melted), and so used the supplied epoxy as instructed, but with a release agent (car wax) on the rifle parts.
 
His process gave a perfectly fitted base, that resisted the recoil of the .450M succesfully.

Think about it. 94AE's routinely/successfully hold scopes against recoil with regular Weaver bases - but those bases are still held to the rifle with the same 6-48 screws as the LeverScout mount.
Yes, the XS mount uses 3 screws (2/receiver, 1/dovetail adaptor), but the front single screw is in the very strong barrel dovetail.

[Any other opinions on the side mounts]  -  Yes - IMO, side mounts suck.   

[Blackhawk44]

Probably 90% of the old side mounts were made by Weaver and Williams.  As far as I know they are still available from both companies.  When mounted the centerline of bore and scope reticle are only offset by about 3/4 to one inch.  By the time you sight in on a 100 yard target, any offset can be forgotten.  A good fixed 2.5-3X scope would be ideal and less bulky than variables.  The early Weaver fit snuggly, was somewhat angled and required the scope to be rotated 90 degrees in the mount so that the adjustment turret would not interfere with the brass ejection.  This caused the turrets to swap purpose, ie; the windage turret then controlled elevation and vice versa.  Once sighted in, its forgotten.  The Williams creates a little more offset since it simply moves the scope rings far enough left so the entire assembly is clear of ejection.  It was common to buy and mount a leather, lace on cheek piece to help align the eyes with the scope.  These are still availabe from Pacific Canvas and Leather and others. 

[handirifle]

One thing I didn't mention before was the mount is on the left side of the receiver (from the rear) and it would work well, IF you're right handed.  I'm not so mine came off.

[blackpowderbill]

You sight in a side mounted scope just like normal. The scope need to be mounted level just like normal. At most the center line of the scope will be 1 inch to the left. At any realistic hunting range you will never be able to tell the difference over a top mounted scope. The line of sight will converge and then diverge from the bullet trajectory, but the error will be so small as to be undetectable in a hunting situation. If that gives you trouble sleeping at night then zero it be 1 inch (measure scope offset to be sure) to the right at 100 yrds. then the line of sight will parallel the bullet trajectory. The error will always be 1 inch then.
  When I was a Gunner in the Navy, the scope/ sight on my mk33mod0 3 inch 50 cal. was about3 feet to the right of one barrel and 8 feet to the right of the other.  We could still hit anything we saw within 4 miles.

[Lloyd Smale]

personalty i cant stand them. to me they take away from what a carbine is good for. Fast quick shots. It is just not going to snap up to your shoulder naturally and have the scope in the right position. You will always need to adjust your head to get a field of view. If it were me id have a gunsmith install a scout scope mount on it or just use the open sights. A low powered scout scope or reddot mounted in a scout mount would be very fast.

[Dee]

Lloyd, you beat me to it. The scout scope is the answer as far as I'm concerned. I seems almost sacrilege to mount a scope on the receiver of a Model 94 Winchester.
The scout scope will not mess with the balance, and is pretty quick.

[qajaq59]

A low powered scout scope or reddot mounted in a scout mount would be very fast.

That sounds like it might work better for these old eyes then my Williams peep sight. Has anyone a photo of a setup like that.

[GTaylor]

Well, at the risk of seeming adversarial (certainly not intentional)  I will say that we have two side mounted scopes on 94's in the family, and are happy with them.  The first was a Weaver k2.5 on my Grandfather's 25-35, about 1950 some odd when his vision started to deteriorate.  He and his scabbard were gone before I was born, but he continued to carry it horseback until his death.  We've recently brought it back out of the safe to compare to a new release 25-35, and it still shoots well, leaned to the side as the Gunsmith at Baldwins in Buffalo, WY put it on over 50 years ago.  Another plus of the K2.5 is the fact the factory irons are still available for use.  The second is a 1970's 94,rechambered to the 30-30 AI.  We did two rifles, and opted to scope one in order to try to evaluate the accuracy of the chambering.  Through the load development stage, a Weaver 3-9 was utilized, but it now has a J 4 scope (3/4" built for centerfires)  This small scope leaves the factory irons available as well.

So pcking78, I will say that we are "actually using" the side mount scopes, and like them.  If I know the shots are going to be 100 yards or under, I'll grab the Ackley with the receiver mounted peep.  If things are likely to "stretch out" I'll grab the scoped one.

Respectfully, Gordon Taylor

[giturgun]

Have remounted mine on the 94 just a few weeks ago. Have had this 94 classic since about 1975 Was my first deer rifle purchase. Strange as it is I never killed the first deer with it.



Think I will change that next year.Mine is a Kwik site model even have the original box. Am missing one side mount screw though.