Author Topic: Wad ?  (Read 1703 times)

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Offline jjamna

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Wad ?
« on: January 04, 2008, 06:53:34 PM »
I am using WWAA 12 (white) wads in AA hulls. 18 Grs Red dot  1 1/8 oz shot. My problem is the shells don't look like they are full. crimp goes in when crimped but the shoot fine.  According to my Hercules Book I can go a little more powder and be OK and that should take care of the problem. For 1 1/4oz  loads the book says to use WWAA12F114 Wads.
Now for my question. Can I leave the powder at 18 grs and go to 1 1/4 oz shot and still use WWAA12 (white) wads or what is the difference in the two. I looked for the F114 Wads but no one around here carries them. Please don't attack me and say I will blow my head off. That is why I am asking

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Wad ?
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2008, 07:08:14 PM »
NO.

Stick with BOOK LOADS ONLY.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline jjamna

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Re: Wad ?
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2008, 07:12:55 PM »
Good enough thanks

Offline jbmi

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Re: Wad ?
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2008, 01:16:06 PM »
You may want to adjust your wad guide. Back off the tension a little. It may be pushing your wad down to far.
Wads are made to compress, that's what the space between the shot cup and the powder cover does, the correct downward pressure will cause the wad to compress to the correct depth leaving just enough room to fill the shot cup  to the exact ht.

Offline jjamna

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Re: Wad ?
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2008, 08:51:17 PM »
Thanks jbmi I really mean it Thanks. I know that shotshell reloading is a lot more critical that is why i ask. I all ways go by the book when and if I can. I do want to say one thing and I hope Graybeard don't get mad at me. If everyone followed the book we would still be throwing spears. Like I said I know that shot shells are far more critical that is why I wanted to correct the problem. I am going by the book and the shells are not getting full. I load with a LeeLloadall so the pressure is regulated by how hard you pull. I am not putting any pressure at all on the wads. I tried some Activ and Federal hulls today. Feds done real good Active twice as bad. I think I may try some Unique powder. It takes a little bit more (see Photo) and is rated at less pressure. Using AA hulls now. Hope you can read the photo

Offline jjamna

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Re: Wad ?
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2008, 08:51:53 PM »
Sorry you can't read it.

Offline .45 COLT

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Re: Wad ?
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2008, 04:06:11 AM »
On the WAAF114 wad - Winchester changed dimensions on it, then discontinued it, so you probably won't find any. Claybuster makes a clone of the "new" WAAF114, Down Range Manufacturing makes a clone of the original one.

DC
On the 19th of April, 1775, a tyrannical government sent an army to disarm its citizens. They ran into a touch of trouble.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Wad ?
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2008, 04:23:36 AM »
Not sure I agree with the spear chucking comment but it has some validity. Back then I don't think they had books with data in them.  ;D

It's pretty much NEVER safe to use a powder charge for some lighter weight bullet or shot charge with a heavier bullet or shot charge. That's just common sense. You didn't say and I didn't look it up in a book what the pressure listed for the 1-1/8 oz load is. If the pressure were down at say 8,000 then it's unlikely adding another 1/8 oz would be dangerous altho what the performance would be is unknown. But if the pressure is up around 10,5000 or more then it could indeed be quite dangerous to alter it in such a way.

You'll find that book loads do not always fill the hull and make a beautiful crimp just cuz the book lists it. What it looked like for them I some times wonder but at least you know it was a pressure tested thus safe load. There are lots of work arounds for when you want to use a load like that. First have you actually weighted your powder and shot to see how close your loader is dropping to what it's supposed to drop? Most likely one or both are dropping light and that's the reason your shells aren't filling out properly. That's a real negative of the tool you are using it just doesn't give you enough lattitude to adjust your shot and powder charges like a tool such as the MEC or Hornady presses among others do.

Weight both and if one or both is low you can try to figure a way to get them up to proper spec and chances are that will fix the problem. Going to Federal hulls isn't likely the answer as they have way more volume than a AA does. ACTIV has the largest capacity of all hulls pretty much.

Those of us who've been doing this seemingly forever use tricks like a bit of tissue over the shot to help fill it out and keep the shot in place or a drop of candle wax to seal it and hold the shot in place after you crimp the hull.

Of course there is always the obvious which is changing your load receipe to one using bit more volume either with wad or powder or both as needed. If you're not using the max powder charge then you can safely increase to that and it might fix it so might just buying a different wad of different size and using a receipe listed for it. But don't just switch components without regard to what's recommended in the load manuals and especially not if the pressures are already close to max.

Changing primers alone can alter pressure as much as 1500 pis or more, the same can be said for changing wads and just one more grain of powder might add from 500 to 1000 psi. If you alter several of those you could end up with a proof load or if the tolerances when the other way one with such low pressure it failed to work properly.

I've used a pinto bean in the wad below the shot to make a hull fill out properly and it's a generally accepted means to fill out the crimp without running pressures up as the volume is enough but the weight is not so much it adds to pressure and it will be pulverized and turned to dust on firing.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline jjamna

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Re: Wad ?
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2008, 07:09:27 AM »
Graybeard, thanks for a well explained reply. I weighed the shot it is throwing. Of five times the lowest weight took 9 pellets to make correct.(I am loading 7 1/2 size) in grains that is a 10 grain span. Presssures are at the top level already so more powder is out. I have been waxing hulls for years (loadalls are not noted as fine crimpers) I like the idea of the bean in the hull, that may be just the ticket. I loaded one hull with 1 1/4 shot with this wad and it is to much shot anyway, it was real hard to get the crimp to close. I think I will try the bean if that don't work will switch to Unique powder

Offline ND Sharpshooter

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Re: Wad ?
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2008, 03:49:50 AM »
jjamna,

Something else you might consider trying is to use Styrofoam discs over the shot.  I use discs cut from new Styrofoam trays (new ones are inexpensive and provide a lot of discs---I don't use used ones)  I drilled out the primer hole in a 44 mag case, sharpened the mouth, cut off a nail to put thru the drilled out flash hole to push out the cut disc, and go to twisting out discs.  Drop a disc atop the shot column and start the crimp.  That will center the disc.  These discs weigh nearly nothing so they don't increase the psi and are shredded by the shot passing thru them after exiting the barrel.  Why discs?  I found that the wax sometimes broke out/off and I don't like any sort of obstacle in a barrel.  A bit of tissue works well too.  The discs give me something else to timker with...also, I sometimes use them in 44 mag loads.  I have found that 44 caliber discs work better than 38 calibr ones...seem to center better in 12 ga.  38's would probably work well in 20 ga and maybe even in 28's.  Jusy my take on the topic.
Never said I didn''t know how to use one.  :wink:

Offline Sir Charles deMoutonBlack

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Re: Wad ?
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2008, 03:58:00 AM »
Did you say that Federal hulls filled out and crimped better?  Depending on your shell hoard, you might want to use more of them?  For myself, I try to use obviously different shells for different loads to avoid confusion.

Offline dakotashooter2

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Re: Wad ?
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2008, 11:49:51 AM »
I will second what graybeard said about weighing your powder. When you do so run several sample using the same speed you will when you start the loading proccedure. often powder bushings throw light. Ive found with my MEC that the first couple of loads will drop close to "listed" weight for the bushing but once you get going the powder doesn't get time to settle like it would in the first couple of drops and comes up short. You can either change bushing size OR give the powder dispenser a couple of taps before dropping (settling the powder) and that will often solve the problem as long as you do it consistently.
Just another worthless opinion!!