Encore 45---how to tell twist rate???

[HHI #4694]

Guys,

I read that Thompson Center has recently changed the twist rate on all new 209 x 45 barrels due to serious accuracy problems with sabot bullets. I read this on the www.PRBULLET.com site.

Unfortunately, I just bought a new 209 x 45 stainless which is on the way to my FFL dealer now. How can I tell whatt the twist rate is? Are they marked on the barrel or someplace? Any help is appreciated!

[Ironwood]

HHI...TC's web page on that rifle says the twist is 1-20. http://www.tcarms.com/mlrifles/enc45/index.html   It will be easy enough to verify when you get your rifle.  With a tight fitting patch run the ramrod down to the bottom of the barrel.  Make a mark with a majic marker on the ramrod at the muzzle.  With draw the ramrod letting it turn with the rifles.  When the rod makes a complete turn make another mark on the ramrod at the muzzle.  Then measure the distance between the marks.  It should be 20" if the rifle has a 1 turn in 20 inches.

[DannoBoone]

Guys,

Unfortunately, I just bought a new 209 x 45 stainless which is on the way to my FFL dealer now. How can I tell whatt the twist rate is? Are they marked on the barrel or someplace? Any help is appreciated!

Sorry, doubt if you'll find any information about twist rate, unless there's
something in the box stating it has the more preferable 1:28 twist.  Here's
something you can try BEFORE ever shooting it.  Screw a cleaning jag
tightly on a cleaning rod and just start it down the barrel with a cleaning
patch on the end of it. You will need the barrel pretty well locked in a
stationary position for this.  Place a vertical mark towards the top of the
cleaning rod, and another mark at the muzzle.

Start pushing the rod down the barrel, allowing the rod, jag, and
cleaning patch to follow the rifling. If the vertical mark rotates a full 360
degrees before the jag bottoms out, place another mark on the rod at the
muzzle. Pull the rod out of the barrel and measure the distance between
both the marks you made at the muzzle. If it's 20", guess ya know what
ya got.

On the other hand, if the jag bottoms out long before the vertical mark
makes a 360 degree rotation, start over. This time, place your second
mark at the muzzle when the vertical mark rotates only 180 degrees, and
pull out. If the distance between the marks is now 14", you have an
acceptable 1:28 twist.

Hope this helps.

[HHI #4694]

Thanks guys, I was hoping it would say right on the barrel. I will give it a try. I wonder how long agao they chaned from the 1-20 twist to the 1-28 twist? I am hoping because my barrel is a new stainless one, I get the 1-28 twist. :roll:

[Kent Harshman]

I spoke with T/C about this on Monday.  Through input from several different folks, I was able to ascertain that the .45 caliber Encore barrels are now being made in 1-in-28" twists, but that there's no barrel markings to indicate the difference between these and the old 1-in-20" twists.  They also told me that they will only replace those 1-in-20" twist barrels with the new 1-in-28" twist barrels if the old ones "just won't shoot very good".  (Their words, not mine)

[rabell]

I purchased a 1:20 209x45 last October and the accuracy was awful.  I spent many hours over several days trying to find a load that would shoot.  4" to 5" groups were as good as I could get @ 100yds.  And yes, I did hand lap the barrel and followed all of the normal barrel break-in steps.  It just wouldn't shoot!

After many phone calls to several different people at T/C, they finally agreed that I could send them the .45 barrel and they would replace it with a .50.  Through confusion at T/C, what should have taken a week to 10 days turned into a month before I got the .50.  During that time I heard T/C was changing the twist rate to 1:28. I called again to see if it would be possible to get one of the new 1:28 .45 barrels instead of the .50.  I was told they only had a few 1:28 barrels at that time and that it would be after the first of the year before the 1:28's went into production.  Since I was trying to get the gun put together in time for our late muzzleloader season, I stayed with the .50.  I still didn't get the barrel in time to make our late season.

I guess the good news is T/C did finally work with me to rectify my problem.  The bad news, to me, is I had to spend entirely to much time and energy convincing them to replace a barrel that,  in my opinion, should have never left the factory.

I have not had an opportunity to shoot the .50 yet, but have several buddies that have them and they shoot great.  I'll also add that this experience hasn't kept me from getting the Encore bug as I'm already contemplating a laminated stock and trying to decide which centerfire barrel I'll get before next deer season, and let's see, there's this frame I saw on gunbroker..............

[simonkenton]

TC came out with the Omega in .45 a few months ago and it had the 1:20 twist. Guys were getting terrible accuracy with that barrel, would contact TC, get the runaround, then finally get them to swap the barrel out for the 1:28. It is dismaying that a good company like TC would put expensive junk on the marketplace. Don't they test fire a barrel before they begin production?

[HHI #4694]

Thanks again for your replies guys. The dealer I bought this outfit from says he received it from T/C on about January 15, 2003. I am hopefull that it is the new 1-28 twist.

I can't be sure if my barrel is brand new or old stock :?  Since I am not very handy, I am not even sure if I will be able to figure out that barrel twist method estimating that was posted. I will give it a try though.

I thought T/C was at the forefront of black powder technologhy? How could they let this barrel twist slip up happen?

[rpseven]

I did the marking thing on my barrel and rod. My rod is making one full revolution + a little further before the rod is out of the barrel and the measurement from the mark to where the jag quits making contact is: 23.5 ins. So tell me the bad news! Do I have 1:20 twist? Or 1:28?

[Underclocked]

That is surely 1:20 else you would have gotten at least something close to 28".

A 1:28 twist will NOT give you a full revolution of the rod in full travel of a standard Encore barrel since the actual rifled length is something under 25".

I had the QLA removed from my replacement barrel and the rifling re-crowned with an 11 degree target crown.  My rifling length is 24.5" and must be close to the standard length as we cut the QLA down to just a hair above the rifling.  My rod makes 7/8 of a revolution from bottom to top.

[rpseven]

Am I going to be looking at some poor accuracy in this barrel? I haven't shot it that much, I did kill a doe with it but she was only like 40 yards out. Are all the 1:20 twist barrels bad and what would be a sure sign that it is bad, I mean what kind of groups will determine if its bad enough for t/c to replace it with a 1:28 twist barrel? The only kind of bullets that I have shot in it has been the power belts, they were the 195 gr. with 100 grs. of pyrodex (pellets). I had a guy tell me at the bass pro shop that he was getting 1" groups at 200 yards with his .45 he didn't say anything about the twist rate. I found this hard to believe but I suppose anything is possible. Well I appreciate the info. and if you have anymore please feel free. Thanks, Robert :cry:

[Underclocked]

rp, no it isn't necessarily bad.  Some guys had good luck with the 1:20s.  I think there is something wrong in those flunky .45 barrels that some of us got initially besides twist rate.  My White shoots beautifully with that twist.

[fredj]

Am I going to be looking at some poor accuracy in this barrel? I haven't shot it that much, I did kill a doe with it but she was only like 40 yards out. Are all the 1:20 twist barrels bad and what would be a sure sign that it is bad, I mean what kind of groups will determine if its bad enough for t/c to replace it with a 1:28 twist barrel? The only kind of bullets that I have shot in it has been the power belts, they were the 195 gr. with 100 grs. of pyrodex (pellets). I had a guy tell me at the bass pro shop that he was getting 1" groups at 200 yards with his .45 he didn't say anything about the twist rate. I found this hard to believe but I suppose anything is possible. Well I appreciate the info. and if you have anymore please feel free. Thanks, Robert :cry:

 You might need to try a longer bullet, a .45 in 1 turn in 20" is the long range set up, I think the other posters that suggested trying the barrel
are right.
fredj

[Billyboy]

I have a 20" twist 45 and it shoots 180 and 200 XTP's really well with 120gr. of 777.  I never could get anything to shoot with the pellets (100 or 150gr.) but I have read that from a bunch of different people.  Then, amazingly, a switch to loose powder brings wonderful accuracy.  I'm still getting 2200fps with the 777 which is plenty fast.  You might give it a try!

[rpseven]

All this stuff is really interesting and I appriecate all the input. When I got this .45 barrel it had a ballistic sheet with it with the loads that I suppose T/C shot in it. The only powder that they used was the pyrodex pellets and get this the 30gr. pellets. They started out with using just 2 pellets and went up to 5 pellets. The bullets they used were the T/C magXspress 155 and the T/C magXexpess 180 gr. Now T/C makes the XTP's don't they? Well, I hope I get what I want from this thing. Thanks