Lee Collet Die Users - Couple of questions and observations...

[Bill In SC]

Well after many recommendations for the Lee Collet dies, I ordered a 25-06 die and the 6.5 Swede set on Monday.

The good old brown truck showed up this evening and off to the bench I went.

By opening and inspecting the 25-06 die, I have a good idea how this works.  Pretty neat piece of engineering.

As I use the RCBS Rock Chucker press, instructions with the dies stated to raise the ram, and then screw the die into the press until it just touches the top of the shell holder.  At this point, lower the ram and turn the die into the press 2 more turns.  There reasoning on this is that this will not allow the press to toggle over and give the operator a better "feel" of the cartridge case in the die.

With that done, measuring the outside diameter of the neck I came up with .2900.  Checked 5 other cases and had the same reading.  Placing the fired case on a Sinclair Concentricity gage,  I measured a  -.0005 to a +.0005 for a total of .0010 run out on 5 different cases. 

Inserting the fired shell into the press and working it through the die was different.  I guess I have become accustomed to the over center toggling.  Running it to the top and applying what I think is about 25 lbs of pressure, I brought it back down.  Hummm....  No crushed shoulder.  Guess I did something right. 

Slipping the resized case on the Sinclair gage I have a measurement of +.0005 run out.   Resized 5 more cases, same results.

Questions that I have, I can feel very light striations on the neck where the collet pressed into the brass.  I backed the die off 1/2 turn and they seemed to be even less, but still there.   Run out was still the same .0005  This normal?  Or should I back the die out another another half turn.

After sizing, outside diameter measured .2825 - .2830 for a reduction of .0070 - .0075.   That sound about right?

Thanks for help....

Bill

[MnMike]

The run out sounds good - better than good actually.

     I usually press, turn the cartridge a third of a turn and press again.

You will get some light striations on the outside of the neck if you look close.

Can't tell you much about the OD. The main thing is that the bullet is held firmly.

good luck,

mike

[steve4102]

.

After sizing, outside diameter measured .2825 - .2830 for a reduction of .0070 - .0075.   That sound about right?

Thanks for help....

Bill

  Duno, all brass and bullets have some variation.  Measure the outside neck dia of a loaded round and subtract your desired neck tension (.002-.003) .  That should be your desired neck dia for that particular make and lot of brass. 
  The marks on the neck will not go away by adjusting the die.  They are created by the collet squeezing around the neck.  You may try a little less pressure on the press handle and see if you can reduced the marks a little, but they are always going to be there to some extent.

[Kurt L]

Bill in  sc
right /wrong
The neck thickness of the cases are the KEY.
if your cases all re-size to say .285 out side neck diameter and you have thick and thin case necks
the inside measurement will be different,thus your neck tension will be different .
by this I mean if you have 2 cases a thick and thin neck and they both re size to .285 the one with the
thick neck will hold the bullet tighter and or push into the case harder,this will make this one hit
a different spot than the other one in most all situations.
this is why people outside neck turn the cases to get them all as close as possible.
another step is after cases have been worked a few times the necks get hard and like to spring
back towards the size it was before you sized it and the necks will start to split from the hardness,
annealing your necks fix this and gets them back to like new softness.

[Bill In SC]

Kurt,

You have brought up some good points.  Neck wall thickness and brass spring back will have a lot to do with it.

May drag out the neck turner, and spin a few to see how they work.

Thanks for the ideas.

Bill

[DDelle338]

Bill in  sc
right /wrong
The neck thickness of the cases are the KEY.
if your cases all re-size to say .285 out side neck diameter and you have thick and thin case necks
the inside measurement will be different,thus your neck tension will be different .
by this I mean if you have 2 cases a thick and thin neck and they both re size to .285 the one with the
thick neck will hold the bullet tighter and or push into the case harder,this will make this one hit
a different spot than the other one in most all situations.
this is why people outside neck turn the cases to get them all as close as possible.
another step is after cases have been worked a few times the necks get hard and like to spring
back towards the size it was before you sized it and the necks will start to split from the hardness,
annealing your necks fix this and gets them back to like new softness.

The thickness of the necks will play some part in the neck tension yes, But, the I.D. will remain the same with these dies because the collet  squeezes the neck around a steel rod so all the I.D.'s will be the same regardless of the thickness of the brass at the neck. ....Right?....  That is how I see it anyway. I tried the outside neck turning thing once with these dies. I couldn't see any difference in accuracy. I believe you might be able to see some difference with a really fine tuned bench-rest gun. But I don't think you'll see it from bags on the bench.
As for the original questions, I think what you are seeing is right. And good.

[Kurt L]

I will stand corrected.

I don;t have a lee neck die.
my neck dies re size the outside neck to the same spec. then as I pull the case back out of the die
the expander ball sizes the inside id. thus if the neck is thicker it will pull back off the expander ball harder.
so in a way you could say if you move it one way with these dies then the expander moves it back the other
way this is working the brass.
the more you do this the harder it gets and tends to spring back.as I am sure you already know then you start to get split necks.
 
that's why with these the object is to have as little movement of the brass as you can,this is how the neck
thickness comes into play.
 hope this helps to clear up my first post.

[Old English]

And that's why so many of buy the Lee collet dies, because they work so well at a reasonable price.

[Kurt L]

I have not had good luck with lee full length and scratching cases but.
I will take your word on these and I am going to try one out,thanks guy's.