Author Topic: new to pig hunting have tons of ?s (Read 3894 times)

Zachary · « **on:** December 09, 2002, 03:59:58 AM »

Hawaiipighunter,

Welcome to one of my favorite game animals - HOGS!!

Let me very briefly answer some of you questions:

1. I am not familar with your gun - a Winchester 9410. It sounds like a level action rifle, but I'm really not sure. What caliber is it? In any event, just make sure that you use premium bullets that really hold up well. Even at shots at 50 yards or less, you still need strong bullets for hogs.

2. Bait - In Texas they use corn. In other parts of the country they use anything else: pastries, apples, honey, etc. Hogs react to different baits in different places. As your local hunters what they use.

3. Field dressing - You don't need to do it in the woods, but then again don't do it at home because hogs stink (especially when you open them up).

4. Tips - WATCH OUT FOR CHARGING. Wounded pigs can, and will, charge you. Make sure that you have plenty of ammo in your gun. Also, look around for dug-up areas - a sure sign that hogs are there because they root the ground.

5. Fool proof shots - I don't think there is such a thing, but your best bet would be right between their eyes or right in their ear. This usually drops them in their tracks - but they are tough shots because hogs are usually always moving - thus making for a tough shot. Shots to avoid - right on the shoulder because they have a "gristle" plate as thick a rail-road track. I have seen a 130 grain convential bullet literally bounce off the shoulder of a 150 lb hog. The hog ran off and was found the next year with a slight limp. Other shots include right behind the shoulder. But on hogs their vitals are more forward than that of a whitetail deer, so don't shoot too far back behind the shoulder because you will hit its guts.

6. Feral hogs v. Javelinas. Feral hogs are wild pigs. Javelinas are, believe it or not, not pigs, but really part of the rodent family. You eat hogs, you only shoot javelinas.

Zachary

Graybeard · « **Reply #1 on:** December 09, 2002, 06:08:05 AM »

I do know what the Winchester 9410 is and I must say I think you made a VERY POOR choice in getting it for feral hogs. For those who might not know what it is the Win. 9410 is a lever action .410 shotgun.

The .410 slug is a terribly weak little round with killing power not much better than a .38 Special. You will find it woefully under powered for your use. If you insist on using it then I'd recommend confining your shots to 25-30 yards or less and shooting ONLY for the neck area. this is the quickest kill area and requires the least power and penetration of any I'm aware of. Even so the .410 slug is a very poor choice. Do not make a big hog mad by shooting it with the little slug or it might decide to "make your day".

GB

IronKnees · « **Reply #2 on:** December 09, 2002, 11:19:42 AM »

I don't have too much to add except that I want to strongly "second" Graybeard's suggestions... When hunting any of the numerous kinds of "wild boar", the last thing you want is a wounded hog... Not a very good choice for hog hunting.... Dave

AKA Craig · « **Reply #3 on:** December 09, 2002, 02:46:12 PM »

well mister i am going to say now rest in peace,for the lord be with you

.410 lol!!!!!

Craig

Zachary · « **Reply #4 on:** December 10, 2002, 03:00:24 AM »

50 to 75 lb pigs are not small. Yes, they are smallER than 100 to 150 lb pigs, but those 50 to 75 lb pigs are still VERY TOUGH and TENACIOUS. They cling on to life more dear than you can imagine.

I once shot at a 75 lb hog with a .30-06 and 165 grain Barnes-X bullets at about 90 yards away. I aimed behing the shoulder, and the bullet exited completely. About 10 minutes later (if I remember correctly) I got down off my tower blind and headed for the "little" pig. When I got about 10 yards from it, the dang thing GOT UP AND STARTED TO CHARGE ME!!! I ran towards a smallish mesquite tree with the "Y" of the tree about 3 feet off of the ground. I jumped on the "Y" and the little pig walked around and finally fell down and died.

You can use whatever gun you want, but don't say that we didn't warn you. :wink:

Zachary

coug2wolfs · « **Reply #5 on:** December 10, 2002, 04:47:45 AM »

There's two kinds a folks that come this way. One is on alimited budget, has but one gun, knows how to shoot, kills about everything with it. Most of em haul a 270 or an -06, end up in Alaska, end up hunting the big bears, and end up dead.

Then, there's the other group, just plain don't know any better, ask around, get mislead, and get in trouble because they didn't ask in the right place.

There is not much I know of that takes more killin than ANY kind of hog, they just ain't big on diein.

Almost say you might be better off with a 22 mag as dumb as that sounds. Yes, the hogs there are small, understood, but they're still card carryin hogs!

I wouldn't think that Winchester gun is going to do anything impressive for accuracy with those punny little slugs, that only compounds the problem.

Myself, I'd rate the 410 slug about enough to knock off an average bunny, and at that I'd still prefer a load of 6's.

We don't reccomend you try that trick my friend. What are they teaching you guys in the Navy these days :lol:

Coug

markc · « **Reply #6 on:** December 10, 2002, 07:32:19 AM »

If at all possible, since your post states that you are purchasing, if you have not already made that purchase, let me recommend that you switch to something else. Before you leave the store with the gun, or make the final payment, opt for something atleast! in .357 mag. Preferably .44mag if a lever action rifle is what you want. I would leave the .410 to shooting birds, squirrells and rabbits. Anytime you are hog hunting those 50 -70 lbers , there is a chance that a large hog will show up. Then you have to question yourself as to whether or not you will pull the trigger.

I don't think anyone on the board is trying to belittle you or your choice of weapons, but from the vast experience with feral hogs on this forum, we are trying to give you some good advice.

If you go with the 9410, I think after a few trips to the hunting woods, you will be wishing like heck that you had listened and made another choice.

Other than that, as GB said, the neck is the spot. From the ear back to where the shoulder begins and not too low. UNfortunately you will experience acuracy problems with the 9410 and a shot between the eyes is not likely to happen unless you get really lucky enough to hit that tiny brain. Good luck ti ya'
markc

Zachary · « **Reply #7 on:** December 10, 2002, 10:19:58 AM »

You know guys, the more I think about the possibility of using a 410 slug on hogs, the more I think that it would be no better than simply poking the hog with a stick - it would just irritate the heck out of him. And somebody said it right about the probability of having a bigger pig around - injure a little piglett and see what happens when big mama is around and finds out that one of her own is hurt! :evil: (Just the thought scares me!)

Zachary

coug2wolfs · « **Reply #8 on:** December 10, 2002, 11:31:05 AM »

NO! We ain't pickin on the lad, we're tryin to save his hide!

Unless you been hit by a Russian, ain't no way you can imagine how much power they have. I call em small sherman tanks, but they move faster than the sherman.

So long as they don't pin ya, usually, they don't bust you up much. Problem comes when they got tusks. And when they do, they're RAZOR sharp. Pigs know this, that they got the cutters. You'll notice when they charge they always lower their heads. Two reasons for that. Pig noses just like bull noses are tender. They don't want to hit with thier tender parts. Top of the head is like a rock, so they hit with that. Right after they hit, they lift their snouts, the snout with the scalpels stickin out. Now you're in trouble. Usually, they'll rip ya open from just above the ankle to just below the knee. Seen as much as in the 70;s for stitches to put one guy back together.

Ya just got here buddy. We don't want to see you go so quick on account of ya went an got yerself kilt by a hog. Besides, I believe you'd get an Article 15 for that to boot!

Now ME, twould be a fittin departure for me. Kinda like to have that on my headstone. "Here lies Coug-They fianaly got em" Heck, I done in enough of them, sooner or later the pig is gonna win. It's just a numbers game. Course on my end, ifn and when they do git me, sho won't be on account a I wasn't totin enough gun :wink:

OK. so I don't play fair :lol:

Coug

wildman · « **Reply #9 on:** December 10, 2002, 12:12:48 PM »

I'd sure pick a gun larger than .410 lever shotgun to do in a hog. Now them wild hogs are tuffer than nails, regardless of weight. I'd consider the .44mag to be the minimum levergun to take to a hog hunt. Even at that, 300grain+ Hard Cast bullets would be the best choice. Not to say a 240grain soft point won't do, but the one's I've seen shot with the hard cast bullets didn't go quite as far. You rip through the gristle plate and shoulders with one of the heavy cast, and she won't go too far. The .410 is a good small game gun in the right context, but it is not what I'd pick to go after a hog with. If you are just DEAD SET on carrying the .410 hog hunting, make sure the gun has a sling on it, for it will probably spend a while on your back, while you are climbing trees to get away from ticked off hogs. Hogs are really dangerous with their tusks. They can do a nasty trick on you with these. Some folks don't know this, but a hog can't bite you unless you are on the ground. You see, a hog can't rotate his head like a dog can and bite your leg while you are standing up. It's due to their anatomy, the way their necks are made. But, he sure can tear your tail up with his tusks no matter if you are standing or down. It's always best to go with too much gun than it is to go undergunned after game that is likely to turn and start hunting you! :shock:

IronKnees · « **Reply #10 on:** December 11, 2002, 02:30:08 AM »

Boys, has anyone heard from hawaiihunter via e-mail or private note...?? I sure hope he is listening to the advice being given here... I, along with you guys, have hunted hogs for a long time now, and no man on earth is more wise, than the man who listens to his elders. (Elders at least in the "experience" department, if not in age.) Hawai'i is one of my favorite vacation spots, and has lots-o-hogs. Kaua'i, my favorite island is no exception. My wife and I are planning a trip to Moloka'i in a couple of years to hunt goats with some good friends who live there... I'm getting off the subject, but Hawaiihunter, if you are there, take a look at the tusks on this "fairly small" boar I just got in Tennessee... If you have never been around "wild" hogs, you can not imagine how quick they can move... THEY ARE NOTHING EVEN REMOTELY SIMILAR TO A BARN YARD PIG....and PLEASE don't try to use that .410... Dave

markc · « **Reply #11 on:** December 11, 2002, 03:11:36 AM »

Coug, that pic you posted with the big piggie hanging up shows the right spot to shoot em. Looks like a nasty hole in the neck, behind the old ear. You could probably psot that pic alot when folks ask where to shoot the big ones. Quick, nice pig, and yeah he does have some cutters on him. They really don't need to exceed 200# to have cutters do they? Nice atv too!
markc

IronKnees · « **Reply #12 on:** December 11, 2002, 04:32:21 AM »

Here is the same hog as above clearly showing the "behind the shoulder" shot... BTW, this was a .30-06 using a 180 grain Sierra ProHunter Round Nose bullet. If you log onto my webpage, you can see the recovered bullet about half way down the page just below the hog pics...

markc · « **Reply #13 on:** December 11, 2002, 07:29:45 AM »

David, I am suprised that the 30-06 round didn't completely penetrate and exit the hog. What was the distance of the shot? what did he weigh?
markc

IronKnees · « **Reply #14 on:** December 11, 2002, 09:08:31 AM »

Opps... guess I forgot to log in on that last post, but trust me, for close range work, that slower theroy of mine does work, but I did a bunch of testing, number crunching etc. before I tried it. Dave

coug2wolfs · « **Reply #15 on:** December 11, 2002, 09:58:37 AM »

That's coincidence.....The boys that hunt the big stuff in Africa like the 2400 fps velocity window. Seems the bullets behave proper and they stay on a straight line, do very predictable things :wink:

Coug

IronKnees · « **Reply #16 on:** December 12, 2002, 07:42:57 AM »

A very close friend lives in Kaunakakai, on Moloka'i... If I can get him to log onto this thread maybe he can help.. Dave

Zachary · « **Reply #17 on:** December 12, 2002, 12:35:49 PM »

hawaiipighunter,

If you use a .243, then let me advise you of two things.

1) use 100 grain bullets of stout construction.
2) shoot the hogs either between the eyes or in their ear.

Don't even THINK about shooting a hog with a 243 on their shoulder because the bullet will bounce right off. :eek:

Can't you get something bigger than a 243? I would feel more comfortable if you got at least a .308 Winchester because shooting conditions will not always be ideal and its good to have a bigger bullet just in case.

Zachary

markc · « **Reply #18 on:** December 12, 2002, 12:44:08 PM »

You should be able to drop any hog you encounter with your .243 with 100 gr bullets, if you place the round where it needs to be. Forget the between the eyes shot unless you are very close. Hogs have kinda small brains and it really isnt that hard to mess up shooting one that is facing you. A neck shot or one in the ear works very well with bullets the size you will be using.

There is a scent made by a company called "In Heat Scents" that have a sow in heat scent you can use with a dripper. So far all I've heard is good stuff, although they report the hogs coming to the dripper tend to be in a foul mood. You can do a web search for the company I supposse if yuo want to try it. THere is no guarantee on anything with wild animals, and feeding during the day is included in that statement. Good luck. Looking 4ward to your pics of hogs.
markc :-)

Graybeard · « **Reply #19 on:** December 13, 2002, 06:27:01 AM »

Kyle, do not make the mistake of assuming there is any corellation between ft. lbs. of energy or paper energy as I like to call it and killing power. The relationship does not exist. Also big, fat slow handgun bullets do not kill in quite the same way as super fast small bore bullets do. This doesn't mean they are any less effective killers. On the contrary they can be even MORE effective killers.

Hunting tools (I refuse to call them weapons) kill in one of two ways. First is thru damage to the Central Nervous System (CNS) which shuts down the brain. Second is thru massive tissue destruction which results in blood loss which in turn shuts down the brain. Damage to the CNS stops all motor functions immediately and results in animal falling on the spot. Massive tissue damage that doesn't shock or damage the CNS usually results in animals running a fair way before expiring from blood loss. This could be from a few feet to a few hundred yards even with hits that destroy the heart and/or lungs. Liver hits are equal to either of those in speed of bleed out as are hits to major arteries or blood vessels.

Small diameter high speed bullets depend on expansion and velocity for tissue damage and resultant blood loss. IF (great big IF) they fail to expand or if they fail to penetrate to to bullet blow up they do not kill effectively no matter how fast they are moving or how much paper energy they transfer. In other words they often fail miserably.

Slow fat large diameter bullets don't depend on velocity or bullet expansion to do the job. Matched with proper bullets (read that as heavy hard cast bullets) they ALWAYS work. They smash thru bone and other body parts and just keep on keeping on. They seldom stay inside the body. The wound path is long and if the bullet is properly constructed with a wide meplat the path is also fairly wide. The meplat does the work with these and even with small diameter high speed bullets. (That's why expansion of the little ones is so important. The expanded tip is the meplat.) This results in massive tissue destruction and rapid blood loss even if the CNS isn't hit.

So forget velocity and forget paper energy. That ain't what kills. Think of it this way. If you were hunting for elephants which would you rather use. A .220 Swift or a .44 Magnum using 325 grain hard cast bullets? The .220 Swift moves its little 50-55 grain pill near 4000 fps whereas the heavy .429" bullet is likely gonna be moving at best 1200 fps. Paper energy beng biased toward velocity gives the Swift far more paper energy. Would you hunt elephants with it? I sure wouldn't. Yet many hunters have very successfully killed all game on earth to include elephants with the .44 mag and those heavy hard cast bullets.

So more to the point of this discussion will the .243 Win. work on pigs? Yes for sure. BUT as Mark said put those little pills where they can work. In the ear or neck. The piggie will go down. Why? That's disruption of the CNS at it's closest point to the brain or in the brain. Put it thru the ribs on a quartering away shot and it still MIGHT kill the piggie but you might or might not find it as it will go aways and won't be bleeding from the tiny entrance and no exit hole. If the piggie is one of Coug's big ones you might bleed some also.

So sure use it but be selective in your bullet placement and never ever assume it better than the .44 magnum for the job. It ain't as good. Been there done that. Faye and Phil even got the t-shirts.

GB

wildman · « **Reply #20 on:** December 13, 2002, 06:41:10 AM »

Why choose a .44mag over .243? I suppose you could open up a can of worms like those folks comparing 9mm against 45acp as a man stopper. I prefer a big, heavy bullet that hits like a tank when it gets there. You can't just rely on energy, you've also got to take into consideration bullet design, diameter, and weight. You put a hard cast bullet in a hog's gristle plate, that's over three times the weight of your .243 bullet, and let her rip. You'll see a difference in penetration/destruction in a smaller diameter 100grain fast bullet versus a 'slower' 300grain+ hard cast bullet. The weight and larger diameter of the .44mag will most definitely make up for the speed of the .243 on most close shots, such as those encountered when hog hunting. You have a bigger .429 hole and the heavy weight drives it through the hog. Which one hurts worse - being hit by a shot from a Daisy BB Gun or someone smacking you with a rock? As kids, we played war down here in the South and used BB Guns and Rocks. I've been hit by both, and had much rather be hit by the BB than the Rock. Now, don't get all tied up in a knot, I'm not calling your 243 a BB Gun. As for a 175yd shot on deer, I'd pick the .243 over the 44. As for up close and personal, I'll take my .44mag anyday. I've not been as lucky as others and taken any in the 250-300# range. Mine have been in the South and in 150# range.

coug2wolfs · « **Reply #21 on:** December 13, 2002, 11:52:40 AM »

Well put GB! Though I am not a fan of the hardcast stuff I do see the merit in them as I WANT an out hole, period.

Interesting on the killing end of it. About a year ago I chanced upon a used 22 hornet in a Ruger hvy bbl jobber with a laminated stock. Came with two rotary clips, and at the asking price, well I figgered it must be a do do to have found it's way on the used rack. I picked up a box of Winchest ammo for it at the same time, regular ole factory stuff.

Me and that rifle caliber are in LOVE! Now I've shot gray squirrels with 22 rimfires, mags, and shotguns. I'll tell it straight up......ya'll gotta get one a these Hornets :-D

Outa that box of 50 I used 6 to sight in, I got 12 left, rest have blowed the heads clean off them grays from 20-75 yards. The rifle spits em in a .25 group at a hundred and has a real small report.

Now I only take head shots. When I hit em they stay stuck right on the side of the tree for about 5 seconds or so.....with no head! Then they just fall off.

If I don't hit em dead center in the head the whole head don't come off. Had one recent that just blew the top half off. Now that one fell right off, but then he made some 20 yards sprayin blood. Looked like a deer was hit on the snow.

Please "splain" this to Coug oh great Bearded One?

Coug

Graybeard · « **Reply #22 on:** December 13, 2002, 12:20:57 PM »

Sum thangs can't be 'splained Coug. Once as a lad perhaps in my teens but if so mighty dang barely I flock shot a bunch of birds on da ground to see how many I could kill. The interesting part of the story is one that flew away but we saw it fall perhaps 100 yards away in the pasture. Walked down and picked it up and the brain fell out on the ground. Whole top of head was gone and it flew 100 yards and then when picked up the brain stayed on the ground. One of the weirdest things I've ever witnessed.

BTW I have a Browning 1885 Low Wall in .22 Hornet.

GB