Reloading-jumping in headfirst - couple of questions

[guzzijohn]

I have now loaded a couple of hundred 38spl and 100 .357. All appears to have gone well so far. In the .38s I am using 4.3gr. of Unique with Hornady 158gr. JHPs. My Blackhawk likes the loads real well but my Winchester 94 does not. With generic store bought .38s the 94 will shoot 1.5-2" groups at 50yds. but with my reloads the groups are around 5-6". Any suggestions?
I am getting ready to load my first rifle cases (.243). My first question is how do you know when to change the cleaning medium in the tumbler? Second question is using nickel plated cases. I have a bunch of Winchester Supreme nickel cases and the RCBS dies instructions appear to caution about using them as they can damage the die. Any opinions on this? I hate not to use them since that is mostly what I have.
Thanks,
John

[Kurt L]

I would bet that you need to up the speed on these to get your rifle to shoot them good.
if it takes a lot longer to clean them add a bit more cleaning additive to it.as this needs to be done from time to time.
nickle cases are to make a long story short bad news.:they are just the opposite of brass they are real hard and you will get split necks in no time with these. I have used them from time to time without die damage.

[Questor]

GuzziJohn:

It seems like things are going reasonably well, but I'm not sure whether the 38 special rifle thing is a true problem or a bullet quirk.

Are those 100 yard groups? The only thing I can think of is that the bullet may be destabilizing, as some short fat bullets will do beyond about 50 yards. Can you give us more detail about what velocity, distance, etc this load is used for? In the short term, try it at 50 yards and see what the groups are like. If those are 100 yard groups, then I'd chalk as a case where another bullet design should be tried. I prefer faster powders for 38 special, and like Winchester 231 the best.

Go ahead and use the nickel plated cases. I use them for .223 for high volume shooting on prairie dogs. Just be sure they are clean and properly lubed before putting them in the dies. (My reason for using them is to make them easiliy distinguishable from 221 fire ball.) After your nickel plated brass wears out, you can switch to unplated if it makes you feel better. 

The arguments against nickel plated brass are:
1) More brittle and case mouths split within a couple of reloadings. My responses: so what? You've already got the brass and you might as well use it up. I've reloaded nickel plated 45ACP brass so many times that the plating has mostly worn off and the brass is visible. That's easily over 20 reloadings, which include expanding the case mouths. Service life with the 45s seems to be about the same plated vs. unplated.

2) It wears out the dies. My response: Don't hold your breath waiting for the dies to wear out. You'll be at the loading bench quite a while before you need to worry about that. And if there is a problem, just have RCBS replace the single die body. It will cost a lot less than throwing out all that good brass you have and replacing it with unplated brass.

3) The inside of the case mouth, where the bullet is seated, is abrasive. My response: Doesn't appear to be a problem. I use it for .223 and need groups smaller than 1" at 100 yards for prairie dog shooting. I get that accuracy with nickel plated brass so any additional abrasiveness is academic.

[guzzijohn]

Quester,
The range was 25yds. I am getting around 2-3 inches handheld with a Blackhawk but as stated before around 5-6 inches with the 94 off a rest. In the past the 94 would do around 1.5-2 inches at 50 yds with UMC or Winchester white box 100 packs in 158gr. full jacket. I am loading Hornady 158gr JHP.
John

[LaOtto222]

Slug your barrels to find out exactly what the bullet size should be. I bet you find the groove diameters in the rifle are slightly bigger than your handgun. This will mean buying two sizes of bullets for your guns if they are different. For some reason the hand guns run .429 - .430 and rifles run bigger some where around .430 - .431 in a lot of cases.

[Questor]

Eek! That's a problem!

I don't have an answer for you on that one. Time to start eliminating variables. I'd start by making sure the gun is OK. Perfectly clean bore. Crown in good shape. Etc. Then trying some factory ammo. If the factory ammo still works, then it's time to take a dim view of the ammo. There aren't many things that can go wrong. I recommend varying the bullet first.

[guzzijohn]

Questor,
When the weather improves (if) I will try the 94 again with the same factory ammo I had used in the past. I will also check my sight (red dot). Thanks for the input.
John

[Questor]

GuzziJohn:

Yes, I forgot to mention sights. My number one problem with bad groups has been sights out of whack. Specifically loose sights. In fact, I just had the strangest thing happen last week. I was shooting my .22 LR bullseye pistol and my point of impact had changed significantly and my shooting was so bad I thought I was flinching. Turns out that one of the screws on the Leupold (i.e., high quality) rings had snapped. On a .22!!! So anything can happen to sights. Obviously a fluke, and I replaced the bad ring with the same kind of Leupold ring.

My mantra for mounting sights: Blue Loc-Tite is your friend.