Author Topic: Hand gun hunting (Read 1429 times)

big rig · « **on:** July 27, 2003, 02:20:12 AM »

So confused:
Hi guys , until now I have been shooting a 357.Mag with federal 158. I have taken 2 deer with no sign of it being under powered. I shoot alot so I know where I am shooting , I keep all of my shots inside 60 yards. Until about 3 months ago I started reading this forum ( bear's have been coming up ) now I've never seen one in the woods , but where I hunt a man and his dog were attacked last week. After all these years a light went off in my head ! Then I read an article about a man hunting bears with hand gun's and said he had taken bears with 357. with a remington 125 SJHP I thought this was on the light side ( but maybe with the right shot placement ) I was thinking a remington 165 JHPCL. there saying 1290 velocity and 610 energy out of 8 3/4 barrel . mine is a 6.5 will these numbers go down a great deal with a shorter barrel ? ( I do not reload )

Thanks for your input, Big Rig.

rickyp · « **Reply #1 on:** July 27, 2003, 03:10:51 AM »

I will start off saying I do not feel a 357 mag is a good choice for bear. Will it work? sure if everything is perfect! it is Just like using a 22 long rifle to kill a deer it will work but it is not the best round for the job.

If I must use the 357 for bear, I would be using heavy hard cast bullets and at some what short ranges like over bate or with dogs.

you should consider reloading you will save money in the long run and make your loads work for what you intend to use them.

41MAG · « **Reply #2 on:** July 27, 2003, 03:47:09 AM »

I also agree a 357 mag is a little lite. Even with the right shot placement I think all you will do is piss the bear off. With that said Corbon has some outstanding rounds for the 357.I would go with the heaviest hardest I could get. But I would really think about going up in cal. A 41 mag,44mag etc. are much better suited to take a bear clean.
( Just my 2 cents)

kciH · « **Reply #3 on:** July 27, 2003, 07:01:53 AM »

Big Rig,
I also will encourage you to start handloading. To answer your question of velocity loss, it should not go down dramatically. That said, there are many factors involved with revolver velocity that have nothing to do with barrel length. I have a Ruger Bisley 7.5" and Blackhawk Hunter 7.5", both in .41 Mag, and the Bisley regularly shoots 75fps faster than it's stainless counterpart with the same barrel length. From my experience, you can expect to lose about 75-150fps in the scenario you outline, but you never know until you shoot them over a chronograph. I'd count on a 100fps loss.

As for suitable loads, I'd recommend the Cor-Bon 200gr Hard Cast Flat Point loading. That load is about as good as you're going to find for penetration in the .357, which is primarily what it is lacking compared to the bigger rounds. I'd take the non-expanding penetration in the .357, against bigger game, than the lesser penetration of an expanding design bullet anyday. As a rule of thumb, when you want to kill something that seems to big for the round you're using, go with the penetration.

big rig · « **Reply #4 on:** July 27, 2003, 12:07:15 PM »

I guess I worded it wrong with what I was trying to say I know the 357. is to light for bear , but I really like this pistol for deer hunting and smaller game. I was just wondering what would happen if I encountered a bear with a remington 165. JHPCL load in my gun ? Don't say run I am getting to old for that !! LOL if it came down to it , would I be able to stun him long enough to get away ? I have only been hunting hand guns for two years but I really love it ( but still have a lot to learn about it ).
( Tracker 627. )

Big Rig.

kciH · « **Reply #5 on:** July 27, 2003, 12:20:42 PM »

Big Rig,
for hunting purposes the Cor-Bon load I mentioned is probably a better choice than the Remington round one way or the other. With a .357, you're looking for trouble with an expanding bullet, in my opinion. I'd take the penetration of the heavy slug over anything, especially in the event that a shoulder bone is unintentionally encountered. If you hit it perfect in the soft spots, that bullet ripping a hole all the way through the chest cavity and out the other side will do you as much if not more good than a mushroomed bullet stuck in the chest cavity. Let the air in and the blood out! Paying the price for ammo like Cor-Bon will have you handloading in no time!

Graybeard · « **Reply #6 on:** July 27, 2003, 12:37:46 PM »

Federal makes a .357 Mag. load using a 180 grain hard cast that I believe they get from Leadhead. To my way of thinking that would be about your best choice for a hunting round in the .357 Mag. Will work fine on deer and be much better if a bear is encountered than would any JHP in my opinion. Nope I've not shot one with either and wouldn't if I had a choice but I'd rather have it than rocks.

GB

myronman3 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 27, 2003, 12:54:19 PM »

as far as pissing off the bear, you would certainly do better than that. there was a bear killed over this way a few years back by a gal who had the bear get between her and her children playing in the yard. she used a 357 revolver. i wouldnt take it as my first choice, but it sure beats fingernails. btw, i carry a 45 acp when i am out and about. the 357 and the 45 maybe aint the best bear medicine; but they are enough to put you back on the top of the food chain.
but for the most part, blackies are pretty shy. the only time i worry is when some jerk has been feeding them and they aint scared anymore. i am more scared of my wife. :wink:

kciH · « **Reply #8 on:** July 27, 2003, 01:03:08 PM »

Amen, brother Myronman3. I don't worry about bears, it's the old lady that gives me grief.

TScottO · « **Reply #9 on:** July 27, 2003, 02:32:39 PM »

From what I understand a can of mace is better for black bears when compared to shooting a bear with a marginal caliber.

There was a real good post once written by a guy in the wildlife management field that dealt with bears on regular occasion. He went through a full detail on how to handle a bear encounter. I'm still looking for it. If I'm able to find it I'll cut and paste it here. At the moment I'm having no luck finding it.

Scott

myronman3 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 27, 2003, 05:19:09 PM »

here is my method of handling a blackie. when we cross paths, i give the bear a reasonable amount of time to realize that i am a human; while i make noise to assist him in his conclusion. once that realization has been made, said bear had better be headed in a different direction. even standing there looking at me is a big (expensive) mistake. i have never had it happen any other way (they are gone SO fast you sometimes wonder if they were even ever there). that being said, as many times as i have seen bears i am sure there were alot more times that the bear saw me; and therefore i never saw the bear.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #11 on:** July 28, 2003, 12:30:47 AM »

what he said!

Quote from: Graybeard

Federal makes a .357 Mag. load using a 180 grain hard cast that I believe they get from Leadhead. To my way of thinking that would be about your best choice for a hunting round in the .357 Mag. Will work fine on deer and be much better if a bear is encountered than would any JHP in my opinion. Nope I've not shot one with either and wouldn't if I had a choice but I'd rather have it than rocks.

GB

kciH · « **Reply #12 on:** July 28, 2003, 12:47:32 AM »

According to Federal, their 180gr Cast Core goes 1250fps out of a 7.5" barrel. Cor-Bon says their 200gr will go 1200, with no barrel length listed. I'd still take the Cor-Bon, anyday. I've not had the pleasure of shooting the Federal, but Cor-Bon's listed velocities are often conservative. To put it another way, their 38+P ammo chronos at their listed velocity out of a 2.5" barrel in my gun. I'll still stand by my reccomendation of their 200gr cast load over any other commonly available .357 load for out and out killing power. I know it seem like splitting hairs, but in a .357 for hunting and bear defense, I'll take everything I can get. I'm fortunate in not having to rely on very expensive factory ammo in these situations, not to mention I can make any load with any bullet to any safe power level that I want. To top it all off, they're about the same price. Midway lists the Federal load at $14.21/20, Natchez Shooters Supply has the Cor-bon for $17.95/20. All hideously overpriced in my estimation. You could easily pay for an entire reloading set up for the price of 250 rounds, including your brass, bullets, and primers. This becomes especially obvious when www.alliantpowder.com claims that 2400 will make a 200gr LRN go 1245fps out of a 5.5" barrel. These specialty loads are great, but a handloader can do at least as good with PREMIUM cast bullets for less than twenty cents a pop with your brass. That's a savings of $60/100 for the Federal and $70/100 with the Cor-Bon, using as good or better bullets than they use.

I'll go along with GB, I'd rather have the Federal or Cor-Bon than rocks.

Mikey · « **Reply #13 on:** July 28, 2003, 09:39:38 AM »

big rig: graybeard and kcih have given you the best commercial bullet loading advice. The only way to improve on either of those loads is to begin handloading yourself (easily and inexpensively) as you can develop better 200 grain 357 loads than CorBon sells.

Also, the 357 is not the best medicine for bear, even the more skittish Black Bear but as myronman3 related about that woman who had one get twixt she and her children, if that's all you have with you it is better than fingernails. The 357 will do the job. It may not be the best choice but it will get it done. When you spoke about 'stunning' it - don't aim for the forehead of a bear running at you. If the bullet impacts at too shallow an angle instead of flat on square it may not stun but deflect off the low sloping forehead and then he has you.

ps: Mace does not work on angry animals. Not one of those angry predators is going to have his eyes wide open enough to allow you to 'mace' him with either accuracy or authority. Mace often does not work on angry dogs either, so don't set yourself up for a mauling by thinging something like that will be able to help you. You would be much better off with a large can of wasp and hornet killer and a zippo lighter.

The wasp and hornet stuff is much more agitating to a wild animal than mace is and the zippo will creates a 'flamethrower' effect, which is very frightening to an animal. In addition, the wasp and hornet killer has a broader application than mace does.

Geez guys, I'm in for all of 6 cents today. Must have been a busy weekend. Mikey.