Neck VS Case sizing, another newbie

[sbplinker]

OK, so I have been trying to get equipment together to reload for some time now, mostly waiting for my dad to find his old stuff. Well he finally found it all, an old rusty Liberty press, and some misc. dies including a 30.06 die set that I want to load. The primer extractor pin was off centered, bent a little up where is screws into the die.

So I went to my local shop, and was sold a Lee single stage press, not sure if it would have really been my first choice, but it was only $20, and I am sure it will work well for some time to come, I might eventually move to a turret style, but I now have this one, and it's shiny and new. i was also sold a set of Lee dies, told it was not worth trying to get a new pin for my old hand me down, I am ok with that, even if I decide to repair the old one some other time.

But after I got home I realized the die set was a full case sizing die, from what I read here, I was hoping for a neck only sizing die. It is my understanding that the neck only provides a more accurate load, if used in the same rifle. I have  a Savage model 111, 30.06 bolt action, and only that rifle, for now... I intend to use it for hunting, but am enjoying learning to shoot more accurately, and want to have an accurate load, half the reason for hand loading in my mind.

I have heard some say that a neck only sized case can jam in the chamber sometimes, but have not really spoken to anyone who this has happened to, except the guy who sold me the full case sizing dies.

I guess my real question is this, is it worth it for me to return these dies, before I use them of course, and get a neck sizing set? is it really more accurate? and am I really asking for cases that do not load correctly in my rifle?

[gypsyman]

Inspect the old dies. If there's any rust inside them, their probably junk. If their still polished and shiny on the inside, they should be good. There should be a name stamped on the side/top of them. If there still in business, a phone call to the company and a couple bucks, should get you 4-5 new decapping pins.It'll cost you more in shipping than what the pins cost.
As far as a neck sizing die set, most company's offer a neck sizing die. But they don't make a set with just that die. After you've reloaded your brass so many time's, your going to have to full lenght size any how. Can't tell you how may times, because there are to many variables.  You might get 4-5 loads, maybe 10 or more, depends on how hot the load, what kind of condition the chamber is in,etc.,etc..
What you can do, as far as neck sizing, as long as the brass you have has been shot out of the gun your loading for, is this. Put the shell holder in the press, run the ram up as far as you can go. Screw the full lenght die in the press. On top of the shell holder, place a couple of washer's, or if you can put a nickel in between the shell holder and the bottom of the die, with out bending the decapping pin, and then tighten the die and lock ring down, your just neck sizing your brass.
If you were loading for a semi auto, like an AR,Mini-14, Garand or M-1, then you should full lenght size your brass. But for bolt action rifle's, neck sizing usually gives you better accuracy, and longer case life.  gypsyman

[LaOtto222]

Unless they are once fired in your chamber, the brass should be full length sized for the first time. After that you can neck size only for several loadings unless you are running real hot loads. Order yourself a Lee neck collet die for your 30-06. You can buy them singularly (about $18 or so) or in a Lee Deluxe die set (about $30 or so for the complete set). I have them for the 22 Hornet, 30-30, 222 and 223. They are the bee's knees. No lube required. After you use them; you will not full length size unless you have to and they work much better than the other guy's neck sizing dies only. You can buy "S" type dies that take different sized dies for neck sizing, but I like the Lee dies better and they are much less expensive. PS you may find that the $20 Lee press lacking in ruggedness for full length sizing 30-06. I have one of those presses and I use it for pushing out primers and pulling bullets. I have a RCBS Rock Chucker for the more precise (Bullet seating) and heavier work (case sizing). As soon as you can, buy your self a good cast iron press, every major press maker has at least one for sale. Lee's run around the $60 - $70 dollar range and is probably the best bargain if you are on a tight budget.

[victorcharlie]

Neck sizing doesn't work the brass case, doesn't set back the shoulder, and will extend the life of the case.

On new brass, I full length resize, trim, and load.

Then, on the once fired brass used in the same bolt action rifle, I neck size.

You can neck size using a full length die, just adjust it to work the neck.....but really, it's more of a partial resizing as part of the case is still shaped just a bit, but the shoulder isn't bumped back.  You'll still need to lube the case doing it this way.

A neck sizing die just works the neck and I just lube the neck of the case when using a neck sizing die.

I like having both, but if you can only afford one then the full length resizing die is the one to have........

[Savage]

Neck sizing works ok for bolt rifles using dedicated cases. You'll find after several loadings you may need to run the cases thru the FLSD. Just be sure to chamber check your cases after neck sizing, and check your loaded rounds to make sure they chamber as well before going to the range.
Savage

[beemanbeme]

Sbplinker, reloading is often like the 7 blind men holding onto a different piece of an elephant trying to describe the entire beast.  Do you have a load book?  If not, you should get one and read it before trying to reload.  If you have already, and have read it, never mind for the time being the various tips you will hear--some of which are good. If you are trying to begin reloading only with bits and pieces of info you pick up in cyberspace, I would suggest golf.
 Right now, get your directions out for the full length dies (aka F/L) and set it up exactly like instructed and then reload EXACTLY LIKE THE BOOK TELLS YOU TO.  Once you have your feet on the ground, you can progress, if you choose, to some of the things folks in here would suggest.

[skb2706]

Sbplinker, reloading is often like the 7 blind men holding onto a different piece of an elephant trying to describe the entire beast.  Do you have a load book?  If not, you should get one and read it before trying to reload.  If you have already, and have read it, never mind for the time being the various tips you will hear--some of which are good. If you are trying to begin reloading only with bits and pieces of info you pick up in cyberspace, I would suggest golf.
 Right now, get your directions out for the full length dies (aka F/L) and set it up exactly like instructed and then reload EXACTLY LIKE THE BOOK TELLS YOU TO.  Once you have your feet on the ground, you can progress, if you choose, to some of the things folks in here would suggest.

Best piece of handloading advise I ever read off the net. Too many times newbie loaders want to jump to the middle of the learning curve before the equipment is even set up.     Like just about any other hobby....there are steps or levels, beginner, intermediate, advanced and beyond. It should be mandatory that we start at beginner.

[Wynn]

Striving for match accuracy in a hunting rifle is a bit of a stretch for a beginner. My hunting load for my Remington ADL in 30-06 shoots .85 groups at 100 yds when I am having a good day and I choose to full length size my brass every time. Since I am the only one who reloads at my hunt club but not the only one who shoots a 06, I can pick up all the once fired brass I will ever need in one season on our range. Also, every time I have experienced a chambering or extraction problem in any caliber, (I load for 7 rifle calibers) it has been with neck sized only brass. No problem really at the range, but pretty aggravating in the woods. For now, I recomend you devote your time to developing a safe, accurate powder/bullet combo and when your more confident with that, you can begin to squeeze out that last .25 of accuracy.

[sbplinker]

Wow, thanks for the great advice, really helpful. Just to set records straight, Golf would be much cheaper, even the way I slice. I do have a book, Speers release 9, it is probable 20 years old, but the info seems reliable when compared to newer stuff, from what I have seen. I will probable get a newer one soon, but am enjoying reading this one.

From what I gathered from you all, even you neck sizing advocates recommend having a full length sizing die, for the sometimes needed resizing of the whole case. I just ordered a Lee collet neck sizing die, and will keep my original full length Lee set I just purchased. It seemed the easiest way to go, and hopefully I will not need the full length one for several more loads.

As far as chamber checking the neck sized cases, are you recommending I just take the deprimered, newly neck sized case, and just hand feed it into my rifle and close the bolt to see if it fits? should this be done without a bullet in the case?

[LaOtto222]

Hunting loads and bench loads are different. If you are going to using this rifle primarily as a hunting rifle, you will need to check your loads carefully. Reliability is paramount. There would be nothing worse than get to the hunting fields and find that the first round you put in will not chamber and get stuck, not being able to extract it. Many crimp their bullets in a hunting round just to make sure that the bullet will not jump out of the case or grow in length under recoil while in the magazine. I personally have not had any problems with cases not chambering, but it is a real possibility. Hand chambering a case with out a primer or bullet would be a good way to start. If it chambers with out any force and extracts easily, then it probably will be OK. Do not forget the bullet. If they are seated too far out then they can get stuck in the rifling and when extracted get pulled out of the case, dumping powder all over the inside of the action and the bore obstructed with the bullet left behind. Stick to recommended OAL for your loads and that should side step those kind of problems. Always check them to be sure they will fit into the magazine and the bullets are not touching the rifling. I hand load to not just save money, but to increase the accuracy of my loads too. Remember that when developing hunting loads there are standard practices that work out best, the ones recommended in your loading manual. Bench rest shooters start getting outside of what is recommended (not with powder charges however) trying to get the most accuracy possible, like OAL. Those people also have considerable reloading experience. With any loads start low and increase the powder charges in small increments until you hit the sweet spot. That is when your accuracy reaches it's best point and an increase in powder starts to drop accuracy. Never, never go over recommended powder charges. If with the bullet picked; you never reach the accuracy you are looking for, you must start over with a different bullet or powder and work your way up again. Be consistent, follow recommended loading recipes and pay attention to the details. As your reloading experience increases so will your common sense. I started with no help from anyone (but did have a couple of manuals) and I made a few mistakes, like crushing necks. If you pay attention to the details, you will not make the same ones I did. Take your time, there is nothing worse than hurrying through a job only to find that you did not charge a case, ruined some cases, or worse (like double charging a case).

[bluebayou]

Sbplinker, reloading is often like the 7 blind men holding onto a different piece of an elephant trying to describe the entire beast.  Do you have a load book?  If not, you should get one and read it before trying to reload.  If you have already, and have read it, never mind for the time being the various tips you will hear--some of which are good. If you are trying to begin reloading only with bits and pieces of info you pick up in cyberspace, I would suggest golf.
 Right now, get your directions out for the full length dies (aka F/L) and set it up exactly like instructed and then reload EXACTLY LIKE THE BOOK TELLS YOU TO.  Once you have your feet on the ground, you can progress, if you choose, to some of the things folks in here would suggest.

Best piece of handloading advise I ever read off the net. Too many times newbie loaders want to jump to the middle of the learning curve before the equipment is even set up.     Like just about any other hobby....there are steps or levels, beginner, intermediate, advanced and beyond. It should be mandatory that we start at beginner.

yah, what they said

Use the Lyman #48 reloading manual for $18.  The best advice that you will ever get.

Start with full length sizing----- with die to the shellholder and everything.  Do it like he says, by the book.  Down the road you will find out about how to tweak more accuracy out. 

It takes a little fortitude to reload on your own (try epoxy bedding your own rifle for some emotional stress-the first time you sink a rifle costing $400-800 into epoxy you will about faint).  Just keep it simple.  One brand of primers, one brand of brass, one weight/style/brand of bullets.