Author Topic: 223cal, 22Hornet, 357mag? Which one would you choose and why? (Read 1085 times)

Joel45acp · « **on:** January 30, 2008, 05:11:20 AM »

I have an extra receiver and want to set it up for my little boy (7yrs old, wts. is about 65lbs). His older brother has a Topper 158 in thurdy thurdy and I want to take both hunting next Fall. So here are my questions:

Which of the mentioned calibers is the most accurate at 100yds and with what boolit? We've decided we wouldn't shoot beyond that so all of our stands are 50-80yds.

Which would have more/less recoil when loaded full power?

Economics is not an issue here so the cost of reloading is a moot point and I cast all my boolits.

Which do you think the boys would enjoy shooting the most?

Thanks for all the help you guys have given me through out the year. Later.

darat100 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 30, 2008, 05:14:56 AM »

Personally, I would go for the 357 and hope you could shoot 360 DW in it. Most seem to be able to. Load it with 38's for light practice. Even reem it to 357 max if you wanted later. IN MY OPINION (which is free and you usually get what you pay for) the others are too small if you are thinking about deer anywhere but the small swamp deer in the south.

Good luck. Just spend the time with them, it is worth way more than any killing!

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #2 on:** January 30, 2008, 05:31:55 AM »

I vote for the 357 for all the same reasons.The recoil and the report from the 357 rifle is very manageable for any size youth and plenty of knock down for any deer at 50-80. Cheap or even cheaper to shoot than any of the others listed and you can do so much with the cases and bullets it just makes the most sense. Kurt

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #3 on:** January 30, 2008, 05:35:04 AM »

.357. Same reasons as the others. It is the most versatile and still has enough power for deer, especially in a rifle.

gr8ful · « **Reply #4 on:** January 30, 2008, 05:42:41 AM »

I also would vote for the .357 for the same reasons listed above.

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 30, 2008, 05:53:15 AM »

I happen to have all three of those and i like them all. The Hornet is too small - period for deer. A lot of 223's will not shoot any thing over 55 grains very well, some will. My personal choice would be the 357. I think that the 357 could be shoot year round and as cheap if not cheaper than either of the others. Familiarly with a gun is important. The 357 will do the job out to 100 yards with the right bullets and placement. I think you will find it difficult to keep up in the ammo department, because of the fun your boys will have with it. Later as they grow up, it can be reamed out to a 357 MAX and be an even better deer rifle, stretching out the yardage to 150+. It can be left alone and as pointed out above, use Dan Wesson 360 in the existing chamber.

Joel45acp · « **Reply #6 on:** January 30, 2008, 06:37:06 AM »

Yup, you guys sure are helpful.

I'll be sending off the receiver this week and have H&R mount a 357mag barrel. Just curious, but are they drilled for a scope? I was thinking of a Handi project for myself using this receiver, but the more I thought about it, the more it made sense to simply have it set up for my little boy. He loves to shoot with his big brother so he'll now have his own Handi to take to the range. Besides, I'm a bow hunter through and through. "Rifle, I don't need no stinkin' rifle." Later.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** January 30, 2008, 06:40:34 AM »

As I've stated a zillion times, ALL current production H&R rifle barrels are drilled and tapped for a scope rail.

The barrel will come with sights, and you can order a scope rail and hammer ext at the same time you order the barrel.

Tim

Joel45acp · « **Reply #8 on:** January 30, 2008, 06:49:44 AM »

Oops, minor oversight Quick. Thanks. Ok, now that the issue as to which barrel to get is settled, what cast boolits are you guys using in your mags? What will be the lightest and heaviest pill we can shoot accuratedly at 50-100yds? Thanks again guys.

WILD_WEASEL · « **Reply #9 on:** January 30, 2008, 07:04:38 AM »

For plinking I've been using Winchester USA brand 38 Special 130gr FMJ from WalMart, $25.00 for a box of x100. I've been experimenting on reloads using a 158gr RNFP over 5.5gr of Unique in a 357 Remington case with a Standard CCI 500 primer. With 6gr of Unique I was getting leading so I backed off half a grain. However, the barrel is brand new and I'd expect leading to not be as much a problem as the barrel seasons. The 5.5gr loads shoot to the same point of aim as the 38 Specials from WalMart at 50'.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** January 30, 2008, 07:21:11 AM »

Quote from: Joel45acp on January 30, 2008, 06:49:44 AM

OK, now that the issue as to which barrel to get is settled, what cast boolits are you guys using in your mags? What will be the lightest and heaviest pill we can shoot accuratedly at 50-100yds? Thanks again guys.

You should be able to use up to 250gr cast bullets when sized right.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,99021.msg1098256532.html#msg1098256532

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm?category=37

d_hiker · « **Reply #11 on:** January 30, 2008, 07:33:57 AM »

Will the factory let you buy only one barrel in the accessory program? I thought there is at least a two barrel minimum

.357 Good choice, but if you are thinking of a project for yourself, you could order an additional .357 barrel for you and have it rechambered at some point in time to one of the .35 cal choices. Ordering now would save shipping the receiver again and the return shipping charges plus the additional wait time.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #12 on:** January 30, 2008, 07:46:17 AM »

Try single shot pistol bullets , if ya want a nice up grade try 357 max. , longer case and can always shoot 38 spl. and 357 mag.
we used to load 356 spire pt. rifle bullets in the max. with a super 14 contender .

quickdtoo · « **Reply #13 on:** January 30, 2008, 07:55:48 AM »

Quote from: d_hiker on January 30, 2008, 07:33:57 AM

Will the factory let you buy only one barrel in the accessory program? I thought there is at least a two barrel minimum .357 Good choice, but if you are thinking of a project for yourself, you could order an additional .357 barrel for you and have it rechambered at some point in time to one of the .35 cal choices. Ordering now would save shipping the receiver again and the return shipping charges plus the additional wait time.

Good point!! I've never ordered just one barrel, their $10 return shipping per firearm is too good to pass up. And if you order a stock set at the same time, it will cost less than $10 to ship your frame to them, a hard deal to pass up!!

Tim

kevthebassman · « **Reply #14 on:** January 30, 2008, 09:04:04 AM »

If you're going to change it in the future, you might also look at rechambering to .35 Remington as your boy gets older. Plenty of "thump" for just about anything.

Joel45acp · « **Reply #15 on:** January 30, 2008, 09:38:30 AM »

Thanks guys. Quick, will the 357mag barrel fit a Topper 158 frame chambered for a thurdy/thurdy?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** January 30, 2008, 09:44:21 AM »

It may fit, but H&R won't fit it. Some have been able to put modern barrels on M158 Topper frames, other say they won't fit at all, none of my barrels would even come close to fitting the M158 Topper I had for a while before trading it off. $:-\$

The 35 Rem is an excellent choice, in fact I chose it over the 357 Max which mine was before the sex change!!

But the 357 Max can be hand reamed with a rented reamer, dunno if I'd try that by hand with the 35 Rem.

Tim

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 30, 2008, 10:48:12 AM »

Tim is absolutely correct about not reaming the 35 Remington by hand. I researched a possibility about a year ago on another project and it was explained to me this way. If you have only have a very little to ream, OK, if you have a lot to ream out, then you will shift the reamer from side to side as you go deeper as you turn it because you can not hold it in perfect alignment with the bore at all times. This causes the breech end of the chamber to out of round and over size. It made perfect sense to me. You need a lathe or some other method of holding the reamer in perfect alignment with the bore. I also read about horror stories of guys that tried to ream a chamber with a hand drill. The same principle applies to a hand drill as it does for hand reaming, it is just faster than by hand with even worse results. Get a professional do do the reaming for you, unless you have a good lathe and steady rest available and know what you are doing.

njanear · « **Reply #18 on:** January 30, 2008, 12:09:17 PM »

Of the 3 you listed, .357 would be the most preferable - if I was buying a new barrel for my 7YO, that's what I would choose. It has good performance, has low recoil and is relatively inexpensive for shooting practice.

I don't have any experience with the Hornet but from what I have seen, leave it to varmint hunting. The .223 is reported to be a decent deer round when loaded up with such bullets as the 60gr Partitions and the 64gr Win SP, both of which I am getting ready to work up for my T/C Super 16 Carbine (I MAY let my 7YO use that next season, as long as we get some good range time; where I hunt, he will be limited to 50 yard or closer shots with whatever he shoots, so I am not worried about long range performance). Of course, even better, I just picked up a used Handi .30/30 barrel and am looking at loading that up with some 125gr BTs or Rem PSPs for him to use instead (I'll have to see how it recoils first). Good thing I have a few more months to figure that all out.

Doublebass73 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 30, 2008, 01:23:38 PM »

You made the best choice for a 65 lb. 7 year old. Even my extremely
recoil shy 9 year old daughter loves to shoot it, especially with .38's.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #20 on:** January 30, 2008, 02:01:26 PM »

I concur, a .357 barrel with mid-range target .38 Specials will be as easy on the shoulder as .22 LR's when shot out of the Handi. The same gun can be used with the properly loaded .357 Mag round or even a .360 DW (which should fit in the chamber as is) for a great whitetail deer round. And the gun will work great for anything between lightly loaded rounds for paper punching to the largest deer with the proper loads. You did good and she will be pleased...Congratulations on a great decision....<><....

garandsrus · « **Reply #21 on:** January 30, 2008, 05:42:45 PM »

One more vote for the .357... Since you said you cast your own bullets, there are many more .35 cal molds available than there are .22 cal. A favorite in the 35 Rem is the RCBS-35-200. You can also use lighter bullets that don't have a gas check, saving some more money.

A Keith style SWC would work great for lighter loads.

John

coyotejoe · « **Reply #22 on:** January 31, 2008, 05:15:21 AM »

I agree the .357 is a much better deer rifle than any .22 centerfire but that is assuming you have checked your game regs, here in Colorado it isn't a legal "big game" round from a rifle, although OK in a handgun, go figure.

canon6 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 31, 2008, 06:19:56 AM »

+1 more for the 357, and with the correct load is extremely versatile. Doug

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #24 on:** January 31, 2008, 11:50:33 AM »

My vote is for the 223.
I think the 22 Hornet would do it and if you have not seen what one of these will do to a deer at close range you would be amazed. Deer fall like being poleaxed. The little bullet breaks up and shreds the lungs and heart.
Massive blood loss and down they go.
I said the 223 for only one reason. Both rifles are going the weight the same and there is more then enough metal to absorb the recoil of the 223 even with 55 grain or less bullets at 80 yards it will be plenty.

Joel45acp · « **Reply #25 on:** February 01, 2008, 03:49:35 AM »

Thanks for all of the input guys. Like I mentioned earlier in the post, our shots will be between 50-80yds. We'll be mainly taking neck shots at this distance. I might have them shoot a rifle in both chambers and see what they like or if the recoil and noise is bothersome. Again, you guys are a huge help. Later.