CAN I BUILD MY OWN 30-30

[Kurt L]

Hi all I know we have a lot of people a lot smarter than me on wildcats,I have never got this deep before and would like some input please.
I would like to get a barrel made for my encore.

My thought is can I have my own 30-30 chamber made,I am sure I can but would like some help.

I would like to move the shoulder out more than the 30-30 IMP and keep the same shoulder angle as the 30-30 Win.
and make these from 375 win brass not 30-30.

My thought they should be able to run the reamer in deeper to move the 30-30 shoulder forward and keep the head
to neck the same as the 30-30 so it would look more like a 300 Win mag (30-30- with shorter neck)

When finished I could use my 30-06 die per say to deprime and just back my 30-30 die out to get my setting to bump
the shoulder on my new chambering as needed.
then how would I determin a starting load for this?

I looked in P.O Ackley and cartridges of the world and see nothing like this and would like to  build my own like this.
Whatdo you think.
Thanks for any help you can send my way.
Kurt

[trotterlg]

You can do anything you like, you cannot run the 30-30 reamer in deeper because it cuts a rim, and the reamer would cut a rim recess while you were running it in.    You would need to get a custom reamer made up, not a show stopper, but it will cost a couple of bucks.  Larry

[Kurt L]

Thanks.
So Should I use a 375 Winchester case and back my 30-30 Win die out and form a case similar to what I am thinking on and send to get a reamer cut to match that?

[Kurt L]

also by making these from 375 Win cases as I form them, If I get the internal case capacity the same as a 307/308 Win
before I get a reamer made I should be able to start low on 307/308 Win load data for a starting load this way,am I right or wrong?
If I am on the right track above I should get velocity ball park of a 307/308 Win ? I think I will get this built on a 24" barrel.
Also just in case yes I know I can just get 307/308 Win but I would like to build my own version on the 375 Win case necked down
to .308 caliber.
Again thanks for any help.
Kurt

[Reed1911]

So Should I use a 375 Winchester case and back my 30-30 Win die out and form a case similar to what I am thinking on and send to get a reamer cut to match that?

That is a perfect idea, I'd actually form about 10 or so and have both a reamer and die set cut for them. C&H will do the dies for about 120.00 and the reamers can be done for about 100.00 +/-. This way you will have a die correct rather then possibly running the shoulder too far back on accident.

If I get the internal case capacity the same as a 307/308 Win
before I get a reamer made I should be able to start low on 307/308 Win load data for a starting load this way,am I right or wrong?

Right idea, but wrong application. The brass will be plenty strong enough but you'll need to make sure your action can also handle it. You did not say (or I missed it) but say you did this in a Marlin you could not go to that high of a pressure and still be safe. If you are making say a T/C barrel then you'll be fine on loads, but then you can do away with the reamer and have it cut by EDM at a cost savings.

[iiranger]

#1). Why?
#2). You can do about anything for enough money.... (see #1).

#3). The .30/30 and the .307 have different base diameters. Yes, if you cut the shoulder forward enough, AND you hold about the same amount of powder, GIVEN a gun safe with these pressures... You should get similar performance.
#4). there is a smith with a series of "rimmed" rounds on .444 Marlin brass reloaded with .308 dies (and a .444 shell holder) awful simple... "Triad" you could do a web search... Then there are the "Epps" cartridges, Improved .303 Brit. You can link to sources from  www.303british.com
#5). While the .375 is a stronger case, in theory anyway, you also give up some capacity for the additional brass that makes it stronger. luck
You got the bucks, this can be very "fun" and "educational" but you pay for your education.

[Kurt L]

Thanks Reed1911
Yes I am going to get I think a 24" barrel for my T/C encore.
Who has EDM If you don't mind me asking.
Any savings will help. Any any other info is also welcome by all means thanks.
my boy 13 is getting into re loading and I wanted to do this for a long time in the back of my head
and he thinks its neat how you can change a 375 Win to a 30-30 Win and 30-06 to 35 Whelen etc.
So I thought this would be as good as time as ever to build something not sold in any store and that I
can't find in my wild cat books,kind of a one of a kind project.  

[Kurt L]

Thanks iiranger.
I am set on the 375 win case necked to hold about the same as the 308/307Win.
I would rather use this than some one Else's or i could use the 308 Win.
Don't get me wrong I just want to build my one of a kind type play toy.

[jedman]

If you are insistent on using the 375 Win. case, and want the same level of performance as the 307/308 Win.I don't think it can be done at safe pressure level. The 375 Win. case just cannot have enough powder capacity, it is about .050 smaller at the head diameter and almost the same length as a 307/308. Think of using the 30-40 case it would be much closer.
                                            Jedman

[mcwoodduck]

OK you lost me.
Are you trying to make a large rimmed round that will have the case capacity of 300 WM?
If so there is 300 H&H Flanged (AKA H&H Super 30)  Odd ball enough to be unique in your circle of freinds, but cases are still available and the long neck of the 300 H&H being able to seat heavier bullets.  It's just a rimed version of 300 H&H designed for double rifles.
Or are you thinking of scaling up 22Hornet or 225 Win to 30 cal and making your own round in the similar fashion as John Browning did to make the 50 BMG based he based on 30-06.
Or do you want to take 375 Win and neck it to 30 caliber?
What speed and bullet weight are you looking for?
If your just looking for a rimmed 30 then have it chambered in 303 Brit with a 308 barrel and load your own using 308 bullets.  Or 30-40 Krag would very similar and is already in .308.   Both have componets and cases easily available.
I think with a single shot you can work up the loads to 30-06 levels in these two old war horses.  The limits are the actions they were designed to fire in and the Enfield or the Krag could not handle the hotter loads.
Besides with the 303 Brit you could mount the Enfield MK1 sights on it and it would be graduated for you.

[Kurt L]

My thought was to build on a 375 Win case And make a 30-30 But the shoulder would be moved forward
to shorten the neck like the 300Win mag I just used as an example
.
I had a bunch of 375 cases and I see the boys made 30-30s out of them so I am not sure how close they
would come to say 307 win capacity. but I think by moving the shoulder out on the 30-30 made from 375Win
I should do better than the 30-30 and come closer to the 307 velocity's.

I just thought it would be neat to move the 30-30 shoulder out more than the imp version and use 375 Win
case as it is a lot stronger than the 30-30 and build a hotrod 30-30 for my encore.As for the 444 It just blows the
30-30 size theme away because of its diameter.

I would like to try 125,150 and maybe up to 165 Nosler ballistic tips and may play with 130 flat points.I would say probably
more in the 125gr to 150 gr bullet range.
Maybe I should just forget it and stick to the plain 30-30.My thought was if I have to custom order a 30-30 barrel for
the encore,why not make a hot rod 30-30 .

I was thinking with my head where the sun don't shine.
The cases just don't have the room I thought they would after a little powder fill test they don't even come close.
I will have to think on the 444 and 30-40 craig ideas you guys mentioned.

[Nobade]

You might also take a look at Gary Reeder's 30 GNR. It's pretty much what you're describing. Real short neck, sharp shoulder, like a very improved 30-30.

[jedman]

Kurl L,  I sent you a PM,      Jedman

[Reed1911]

OTT uses the EDM process to make barrels, I believe they are still as sponsor here as well, the site is HTTP://WWW.OTTLLC.COM
Great product for sure.

MY thoughts on the overall project are that you are for the most part going to duplicate what others have done, but you've chosen a good available case to use, forming will be fairly easy, and you will also be able to use .30-30 brass in a pinch as well as 38-55 brass. I'd strongly advise you to anneal the .375 before you form it, we have to to make the 7-30 Waters brass and we neck to 30 first. It should be a fun and rewarding project. Keep us all updated on it.

[Kurt L]

thanks for the other ideas to check out.
i am still leaning toward the 30-30 shoulder moved way out when making from 375 win
and i was way of on internal case capacity but if i could come ballpark of the 30-30 improved i would still be happy
P.O.Ackley shows like 2600-2700 for 150 gr for 30-30 imp.
I would be happy with this if i could form them from the 375win as before and move the shoulder way out .
well the making of the case is the easy part for me it's the getting this chamber cut that is unclear at this point.
I will look up your suggestions and thanks again.

[yooper77]

What kind of firearm platform are your thinking about for this new rimmed .308 caliber cartridge?

I know what your trying to do and it sounds good, but you would be better off with the already invented 309 JDJ.

The .309 JDJ is formed from the 444 Marlin.

308 Marlin, reinvented 307 Winchester.

303 British Ackley Improved, you can build this for .308 bullets instead of .311 bullets if desired.

30-40 Krag Ackley Improved.

yopper77

[Kurt L]

i dropped the idea and as you said i have been thinking on the 309 some but not a lot of info on it.
I am working with T/C Encore frames
what could i expect from the 309jdj with 150 gr bullet and 26" barrel any idea.
also been thinking on 25-35 win imp.

[PaulS]

Using the 375 case will give you the length of the 308 but not the same capacity.  The 375 has a case head diameter of .4212" and the 308 and 307 have a case head diameter of .4709". The brass of the 375 is heavier as well so the internal capacity is gong to be reduced significantly.  You would be able to get exactly what you want in a 307 or more than you want using the 45-70 brass. It has a head diameter of .5055" and thinner case walls. It is the same length so it will all be the same length cartridge.

[yooper77]

Kurt L,

Take a look at this site: http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerCaliber2Guide/Handgun/Standarddata/30Cal(7.62mm)/309%20JDJ%20Page%2079.pdf

You could probably add 150-200 FPS to the rifle barrel.

You might want to think about the 25 Krag Ackley Improved alot better performance then the 25-35 Winchester Ackley Improved.  I do like my 25-35 Winchester in a Winchester pre64 model 94.

Take a look at this link from midwayusa.
http://www.midwayusa.com/esearch.exe/search?search_keywords=25+Krag+Ackley+Improved&category_selector=all_products&Click+to+Begin+Search.x=0&Click+to+Begin+Search.y=0

yooper77

[iiranger]

You speak of moving the shoulder of a .30/30 forward. As in same angle, shorter neck or sharper shoulder? Mr. Mashburn used 45 degree shoulders, about the limit. Small powder capacity gain. Alot less brass flow into the neck, longer case life.

.375 is a newer case on the .30/30 rim overall size, supposedly stronger, as in MORE brass. That means less powder capacity inside. When you use a new gun with the stronger case, a little higher pressure to get the equal performance, no big deal.

As you observe, the .30/30 is smaller in diameter than the .307, ergo getting the same powder capacity is a challenge. Sharp shoulder and real short neck? Maybe.

Mr. Ackley wrote that the .30/40 Krag Improved equaled FACTORY .300 H&H Magnum loads easily and safely. Wtih study, you understand. With impatience and the hottest .300 H&H load you have ever heard of, you blow your fool head off. i). This was NOT in Krag actions-- one lug and OLD! ii). .300 H&H was not loaded hot for use in places that are hot, India, Africa... so equalling it, well, like current .30/'06 loads, some. iii). Winchester and other single shots were being given away. De Haas writes of rifles with wood case, velvet lined and tools for $15.00. [And today --when book was written-- he is condemned for ruining the collector value by bushing the firing pin and re barreling to something newer, say .219 Don Wasp. Another "son" of the .30/30]

Mr. Brown of eabco.com has worked extensively with the "Don Wasp" thinking in building match winning guns, pistol and rifle. You should see what he has for you to learn.

Mr. A said that the .30/30 Imp about equaled factory .300 Savage loads. O.K. Sharp the shoulder some more. Shorten the neck. You will headspace on the rim, so that is fixed. You might approach the .307 case capacity and with a little extra pressure, a slower powder...

Your toy, but I don't see a swarm of followers to "have one too." As I suggested, the .303 Epps line, formed with counsel from Mr. Ackley, ... Put a .303 Imp (with a .308 barrel if you like, original P14 barrels were 5 groove and the ones I measured --with a friend-- appear to be .307. We were sober.) in a P-14 and you will leave all the .30/30's behind. Or Mr. Brown's single shot... Your bucks. Luck.

[RugerNo3]

To get any info on the 309JDJ go to SSK Industries. A Graybeard sponsor. He is adept with the TC singleshots.